How SNHU Serves 300,000 Students With AI Agents and Human Advisors

OutRival CEO Ruben Harris sits down with Lisa Marsh Ryerson, President of Southern New Hampshire University, to break down how one of America's largest universities serves 300,000 students with AI agents working alongside human advisors.

SNHU invented Speed to Lead, the practice of reaching students the moment they raise their hand. Now the university is building on that foundation with an AI native strategy: agents that handle the hand work so advisors can do the heart work, warm handoffs from chatbot to human, and an executive team the president personally put through a six week AI boot camp.

President Ryerson also shares why 300,000 learners is no longer scale in her mind, how SNHU evaluates AI vendors as strategic partners, why she tells her team they cannot tweak their way to the future, and what it takes to aim for 10 million learners.

The New Normal goes inside organizations using AI in production at scale. No hype. Just leaders who reimagined their organizations with AI at the core.

Key ideas from the conversation:

• Speed to Lead exists because the moment a student raises their hand is fragile. Life rushes back the next day.
• If you only answer inbound, you are totally reactive. The work requires being daily, intentionally proactive.
• AI agents give advisors an Iron Man suit: tools that surface who needs attention today.
• The plan should never be to buy a bunch of licenses first. Understand your data structure and your people's capacity to implement with fidelity and ROI.
• Risk aversion and risk taking coexist through a disciplined process: name the risk, mitigate it, manage the residual, and write after action reports.
• You cannot tweak your way to the future. Systems that are not AI native require whiteboarding from what is true about learning.
• Higher ed should never cede authority over what learning is to the frontier labs.
• Great vendors are not vendors. They are strategic partners who embed with your teams and obsess about your learners as much as you do.
• Personalization is not static, because goals and purpose change across a lifetime.
• Hand work belongs to agents. Heart work belongs to people.
• 300,000 learners is no longer scale. The challenge on the table is 10 million.

Learn more about OutRival: https://www.outrival.com 
Watch every episode: https://thenewnormal.fm

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#AI #HigherEducation #SNHU #AIAgents #EdTech

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Ruben Harris: You all invented what I learned was a term called speed to lead- Speed to lead ... back in my career comma days. Yes. So can you talk about speed to lead, why it's [00:00:10] important, and the difference between, like, an, an inquiry or prospect- 

[00:00:13] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:00:13] Ruben Harris: and that whole 

[00:00:14] Lisa Ryerson: spectrum journey? Sure. Happy to. People need flexibility and adaptability, and when they have a moment in their life [00:00:20] to reach out to SNHU, our obligation back to them, that brand promise of opening up access, is to get to them in the moment that matters [00:00:30] most for them.

[00:00:30] Lisa Ryerson: If you think that you're- are interested in education at 10 o'clock at night, and you have been thinking about it, and one of our commercials comes up, we owe it to you [00:00:40] to talk with you at that point. The sensibility, the attributes of an organization and the people with- within an organization to be deeply curious.

[00:00:49] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. [00:00:50] 

[00:00:50] Lisa Ryerson: Not just checking a box, as you said earlier. Mm-hmm. I have to ask these questions. Yeah. So whether that's a human or that's an agent, it's about knowing. 

[00:00:58] Ruben Harris: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:00:59] Lisa Ryerson: And [00:01:00] caring to know. 

[00:01:00] Ruben Harris: Goals and purpose can change. Personalization isn't static. It's not just at the beginning. It's changing. Boom. You're changing as a person.

[00:01:07] Ruben Harris: There's 

[00:01:07] Lisa Ryerson: a mic drop- Right ... what you just said. 

[00:01:09] Ruben Harris: Right. 

[00:01:09] Lisa Ryerson: [00:01:10] T- and that's the risk, right? That you'll say I'll buy a system that will help me with personalization. You think it's a one and done. 

[00:01:16] Ruben Harris: Happy Thursday. My name's Ruben Harris, and this is The New [00:01:20] Normal. The New Normal is a show where we go inside of organizations that are actually using AI in production, at scale, in a way that's making a meaningful impact in their [00:01:30] organizations.

[00:01:30] Ruben Harris: This is not a show about hype. It's a show where we interview leaders who have made decisions to reimagine their organizations with AI at its core. [00:01:40] Today, we're in the beautiful New Hampshire. We're on SNHU's campus, and I'm excited to introduce our guest, President Lisa Ryerson. Welcome, Lisa. [00:01:50] 

[00:01:50] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, thank you, Ruben.

[00:01:50] Lisa Ryerson: It's such a treat to be with you. I love everything. I love the name of your podcast, your approach to AI-centric work. I love- Thanks for inviting me. Thank you for- It's a privilege ... 

[00:01:58] Ruben Harris: thank you for being with us. [00:02:00] Um, love your energy, love our conversation yesterday, and I like the conversation- Yes ... that we're about to have right now, so.

[00:02:04] Ruben Harris: Great. Before we get into the school- 

[00:02:06] Lisa Ryerson: Sure ... 

[00:02:06] Ruben Harris: why don't we get into you? Who is [00:02:10] President Ryerson? How did you get here, and why did they choose you? 

[00:02:14] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, that's a, as is always the case with you, an insightful question. Uh, [00:02:20] who is Lisa Marsh Ryerson? I'm a teacher and a learner and a leader. Um, all of those three items together.

[00:02:29] Lisa Ryerson: Uh, [00:02:30] I'm a mother and a grandmother. What I would want you to know most about me, and why I believe I was selected, is I'm a believer in [00:02:40] people and in the power of people through education across a lifetime to transform their own lives, the lives of their families and communities, and therefore [00:02:50] humanity and society.

[00:02:52] Ruben Harris: I love that. And I love that you brought up mother and grandmother- Yes ... because- 

[00:02:56] Lisa Ryerson: Important to me ... 

[00:02:56] Ruben Harris: I'm a product of the matriarchy. We talked about this You 

[00:02:59] Lisa Ryerson: share that with [00:03:00] me 

[00:03:00] Ruben Harris: I'm a, I'm a mama's boy. Yeah. I love my grandmother, rest in peace. Um- 

[00:03:03] Lisa Ryerson: And I love that about you, Ruben. You understand the power of the women- Yes

[00:03:08] Lisa Ryerson: in your life. 

[00:03:08] Ruben Harris: Yes. And that's where I'm [00:03:10] gonna go, where if the majority of college students are women right now- They are ... right, why is it important for women to lead? Like, go deeper on that. I 

[00:03:17] Lisa Ryerson: think it's always been important and, and you are [00:03:20] right. And I, I own that in the following way. I recognize that in my seat as the president CEO of one of the largest [00:03:30] universities in the nation How important it is for me, as a woman leader, to reach behind me- 

[00:03:39] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm[00:03:40] 

[00:03:40] Lisa Ryerson: remember that I stand on the shoulders of other great leaders and other great women, and that part of my accountability is helping them find and have pathways forward- Mm-hmm ... as [00:03:50] leaders. 

[00:03:50] Ruben Harris: And I, I love that you, you brought up the s- what you all have accomplished, and the size and importance of th- Yes ... this institution.

[00:03:58] Ruben Harris: But for the people that don't know, [00:04:00] tell us about SNHU, how big it is, its scale, its history. 

[00:04:03] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. What I wanna do is look out at the audience and say, "What do you mean you don't know about SNHU?" [00:04:10] But what I would want you to know- Mm-hmm ... is that our mission drives everything that we do, and we are scaled, and we are large because of what our mission calls us to do, [00:04:20] to open up access to opportunity, to help learners transform their lives through workforce, meaningful, relevant programs that unlock [00:04:30] opportunities for all.

[00:04:30] Lisa Ryerson: And our accountability is driving equitable outcomes for all. So the scale. Right now, today, you know, we start terms every eight weeks. So to date, [00:04:40] 225,000 learners- Wow ... at SNHU. If you look at that over the course of a 12-month period, over 300,000 learners- Wow ... [00:04:50] enrolled at SNHU. And if you had a chance to catch up with our most recent postings or media about IPEDS data, uh, we've had the largest [00:05:00] increase, um, year over year percentage in students.

[00:05:03] Lisa Ryerson: Over 19% increase- 

[00:05:05] Ruben Harris: I love that you t- ... 

[00:05:05] Lisa Ryerson: in learners ... 

[00:05:06] Ruben Harris: that you... That's, that's massive. You brought up- 

[00:05:08] Lisa Ryerson: It is massive ... 

[00:05:09] Ruben Harris: IPEDS [00:05:10] data, and data in general. You said something earlier about data- 

[00:05:13] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:05:13] Ruben Harris: that we'll touch on in a second. 

[00:05:14] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah, that's important to know about me. Yeah. When you said, "Who is Lisa Marsh Ryerson?" I am an evidence-informed [00:05:20] leader.

[00:05:20] Lisa Ryerson: That's- Data and discipline around data matter. Why, for me? I'm excitable, Ruben. Mm-hmm. You know that about me. Mm-hmm. I, I love new ideas. I fall in love [00:05:30] with new ideas, and being disciplined around data helps ensure that decision-making is grounded in reality- Mm-hmm ... not just chasing- 

[00:05:39] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:05:39] Lisa Ryerson: a [00:05:40] new, shiny thing.

[00:05:42] Ruben Harris: So we're talking about evidence-based leadership. 

[00:05:45] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:05:46] Ruben Harris: Data. 

[00:05:46] Lisa Ryerson: Data. 

[00:05:47] Ruben Harris: And the term that you shared with me, which is effective [00:05:50] social enterprises. 

[00:05:51] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. 

[00:05:51] Ruben Harris: You've led not just SNHU. You've also led AARP. Yes. What is an effective social enterprise, and how does data [00:06:00] inform, uh, evidence-based decisions? 

[00:06:02] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. It, it is.

[00:06:03] Lisa Ryerson: Thank you. You're, you're a very careful listener, who is curious, and you know how important that is to me. Mm-hmm. For me, higher [00:06:10] education is such purposeful work, because education is a core social determinant for health, for individuals- Mm-hmm ... communities, and for our society. So when [00:06:20] you, when you hear me say it in that way, you understand why I see us as an enterprise- A full system of learning- 

[00:06:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:06:26] Lisa Ryerson: across a life course, and our mission calls [00:06:30] upon us to have outcomes that are for the individual and that are social outcomes. Mm-hmm. So it is that, uh, doing work effectively [00:06:40] and doing good work- 

[00:06:41] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:06:42] Lisa Ryerson: for individuals and for communities. That is measurable. 

[00:06:45] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:45] Lisa Ryerson: Social enterprises are businesses. 

[00:06:47] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:48] Lisa Ryerson: And [00:06:50] it provides deep, broad, shared focus. 

[00:06:53] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:06:53] Lisa Ryerson: For SNHU, and I've worked at other social enterprises as well, as you said. But yeah, I was the president for many years of a, of a [00:07:00] historic woman's college. Mm-hmm. I worked at AARP, where we... You know, AARP is a phenomenal organization working to improve life for people who are 50 and older, letting them live [00:07:10] life as they want to.

[00:07:11] Lisa Ryerson: I led the foundation fighting poverty. Mm-hmm. So you see this thread. Coming to SNHU was a return to a big mission [00:07:20] To help learners have access to learning from wherever they are, whoever they are as an individual, whatever their identities are, their circumstances [00:07:30] are, our obligation to provide them with rich experiences that help them unlock their opportunities 

[00:07:36] Ruben Harris: I love that.

[00:07:37] Ruben Harris: And we're, we're- Big 

[00:07:37] Lisa Ryerson: missions ... 

[00:07:38] Ruben Harris: big missions. And we're gonna, we're gonna [00:07:40] go into health in, in a second. And you and I both share a history of working with seniors, because- We 

[00:07:46] Speaker 2: do ... 

[00:07:47] Ruben Harris: I used to work at Honor, right? I 

[00:07:48] Lisa Ryerson: know, and I loved- In the, in the caregiving space ... [00:07:50] learning 

[00:07:50] Ruben Harris: that about you. I was a caregiver as well.

[00:07:51] Lisa Ryerson: Yes So- And I do know you, you have been a caregiver. We talked about- Mm-hmm ... everything about that, and where you find information, and- Mm-hmm ... the gift of [00:08:00] longevity- Mm-hmm ... for more individuals in society, but also the things we need to address and acknowledge about caregiving. Mm-hmm. When you had that role, it's an unseen role.

[00:08:08] Ruben Harris: It is a unseen [00:08:10] role, unappreciated role. 

[00:08:11] Lisa Ryerson: Underappreciated. 

[00:08:12] Ruben Harris: It's, it's, it's very, um- 

[00:08:14] Lisa Ryerson: It can be lonely ... 

[00:08:14] Ruben Harris: it, it... I was shocked to find out that a lot of times the caregivers that are younger- 

[00:08:19] Lisa Ryerson: [00:08:20] Yes ... 

[00:08:20] Ruben Harris: taking care of older people often pass away- 

[00:08:23] Lisa Ryerson: I know ... 

[00:08:23] Ruben Harris: earlier due to psychological stress. That's 

[00:08:25] Lisa Ryerson: right. That's right.

[00:08:26] Lisa Ryerson: It's lonely. It can lead to isolation and loneliness as well. So more [00:08:30] on that, we recognize that we have many caregivers who are our learners- Mm-hmm ... and many in our workforce. Mm-hmm. And how do we provide supports that indicate, "I see you"? 

[00:08:39] Ruben Harris: [00:08:40] Yeah. And, and in a way, right, teachers tend to be unappreciated. 

[00:08:44] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, for sure.

[00:08:45] Ruben Harris: And they need to be feeling- Yes ... like they're seen, and so do students. That's right. And [00:08:50] going back to this point about effective social enterprises and evidence-based leadership, you did something. So you talked about the scale, 300,000- Yes ... plus students, right? You [00:09:00] did something when you came here, which is shrinking the size of your leadership team.

[00:09:05] Lisa Ryerson: I did. 

[00:09:06] Ruben Harris: How big is that team? 

[00:09:08] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:09:08] Ruben Harris: Why did you do it, and why is it [00:09:10] important? 

[00:09:10] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah, I did. I looked at the executive team, and for me, it is never about... It is always having the right voices and the [00:09:20] right mix of talent at the table on behalf of the whole. 

[00:09:23] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:24] Lisa Ryerson: And focus and relationships, you and I spoke about this- Mm-hmm[00:09:30] 

[00:09:30] Lisa Ryerson: I don't think anything is accomplished without that combination And for me, just being large did not lead to [00:09:40] the most effective conversations that I wanted to be holding in the room. Mm-hmm. Now, at the same time that my executive team of seven- 

[00:09:48] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:09:49] Lisa Ryerson: was [00:09:50] smaller, the layers of leadership underneath, for a strategic leadership council- Mm-hmm

[00:09:55] Lisa Ryerson: for our leadership alignment group, increased. Mm-hmm. In other words, it's not only one leader [00:10:00] group- 

[00:10:00] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... 

[00:10:01] Lisa Ryerson: that knows everything or should be making all of the decisions. 

[00:10:03] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I like thinking about decisions a lot, and I like the size of your team 'cause it also is, it [00:10:10] ties to pace. 

[00:10:11] Lisa Ryerson: It ties to velocity.

[00:10:12] Lisa Ryerson: And 

[00:10:12] Ruben Harris: speed, 

[00:10:12] Lisa Ryerson: right? Setting the right pace. 

[00:10:13] Ruben Harris: You and I are both musicians, right? We 

[00:10:15] Lisa Ryerson: are. 

[00:10:16] Ruben Harris: You played clarinet, I played the 

[00:10:16] Lisa Ryerson: cello. I did. And you still play. I still play. And I shared with you that [00:10:20] you've inspired me. I can see where my clarinet is stored. 

[00:10:24] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:25] Lisa Ryerson: It would be hard to get my embouchure back, but I'm gonna try.

[00:10:27] Ruben Harris: Bring it back and then we can play something. I'm gonna bring it 

[00:10:28] Lisa Ryerson: back. That'd be great. 

[00:10:29] Ruben Harris: And 

[00:10:29] Lisa Ryerson: we can, [00:10:30] you 

[00:10:30] Ruben Harris: know. And so as, as a musician, and as someone that has those roots, like us- Yes ... we, we talked about music school and everything- Yes. Yes ... in that, in that time. Talk about setting the right pace and the tempo- [00:10:40] Yes

[00:10:40] Ruben Harris: for your team and, and why that is important. 

[00:10:41] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. It is important. Then I think about right pieces of music, where you know that adagio is the right pace, but then- Yeah. There you go ... where you are picking it up. There you go. Where you need pauses- 

[00:10:49] Ruben Harris: [00:10:50] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... 

[00:10:50] Lisa Ryerson: and interludes. Yeah. Or play that chorus again- 

[00:10:53] Ruben Harris: Yeah.

[00:10:54] Ruben Harris: Yeah ... 

[00:10:54] Lisa Ryerson: as opposed to going into new music. Setting the pace for me is about not everything moving fast. 

[00:10:59] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:59] Lisa Ryerson: But [00:11:00] it is the team understanding that time boxing matters. Mm-hmm. So I'm happy to ta- I wanna talk with you more about that, because I think it's a practice that you have as well. Time 

[00:11:08] Ruben Harris: boxing, you said?

[00:11:08] Lisa Ryerson: Time boxing. 

[00:11:09] Ruben Harris: Yeah, let's talk about 

[00:11:09] Lisa Ryerson: [00:11:10] it. Which is knowing that, um, you can't sit in analysis paralysis forever. 

[00:11:16] Speaker 3: Correct. 

[00:11:16] Lisa Ryerson: And because I believe in evidence and discipline, you [00:11:20] have to know when you have enough- Mm-hmm ... evidence, qualitative and quantitative, to move forward. So time boxing is important for me, as is understanding some [00:11:30] decisions can be made quickly.

[00:11:31] Lisa Ryerson: The data will show that to you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I know we'll talk more about this- Mm-hmm ... when you think about conversion- 

[00:11:35] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[00:11:36] Lisa Ryerson: rates, what data will show you. There are decisions, uh, [00:11:40] universities and other sector leaders of other organizations can make pretty quickly with that data. Mm-hmm. When you're thinking about decisions that inform necessary cultural shifts- Mm-hmm

[00:11:49] Lisa Ryerson: in an [00:11:50] organization, the pace for that will likely be a bit slower. Mm-hmm. Because one has to know- Who do you bring in, when and at what [00:12:00] time? Mm-hmm. How do you value that? And then how do you own the accountability as a leader to say, "I've listened, I've learned, I'm moving." 

[00:12:07] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. That's right. And I, and I think the, [00:12:10] the time boxing is so important because even though higher ed is an effective social enterprise, and people do measure metrics- 

[00:12:18] Lisa Ryerson: Yes

[00:12:19] Ruben Harris: even [00:12:20] though some people might move slower or faster before they make a decision, by the time they make a decision, it takes a very long time- Oh, to implement ... to see, not only to implement, but [00:12:30] also to see if it did anything. 

[00:12:32] Lisa Ryerson: I know. 

[00:12:33] Ruben Harris: Right? 

[00:12:33] Lisa Ryerson: You're raising a critically important point because you're right.

[00:12:36] Lisa Ryerson: You think about the life cycle of a student journey. Mm-hmm. You know, whether that is [00:12:40] even term to term. Mm-hmm. Or if you're thinking about entry until completion. Mm-hmm. You have to be patient- 

[00:12:45] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:12:46] Lisa Ryerson: you're reminding me, and I agree with you 100%, Ruben- Mm-hmm ... until you see the [00:12:50] result. Up front, though, we measure a lot and measurement matters.

[00:12:54] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. However, sometimes we measure things that matter less than [00:13:00] other measurements, and also it is- Easy- Mm-hmm ... I think, for organizations in higher education- Mm-hmm ... the field that I love [00:13:10] most- Mm-hmm ... and have worked in the longest, to want to analyze every bit of information and to get, maybe to drown a little bit.

[00:13:17] Lisa Ryerson: Let's call it a data lake. So we'll use that example. [00:13:20] A lot of people could focus on that. You could... Are you swimming in the data lake and making it to the other side or are you drowning in your data lake? Yeah. And so the need to say what is the relevant information [00:13:30] for this decision that I'm making, and if you're measuring everything and collecting all of that, it's a little bit like clogging up your arteries.

[00:13:37] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:13:38] Lisa Ryerson: You know, you're taking in things [00:13:40] maybe- I ask you, do that and you 

[00:13:41] Ruben Harris: die ... 

[00:13:42] Lisa Ryerson: that are not as nutritionally significant- Yeah ... for the decision that you need to make. 

[00:13:45] Ruben Harris: No. Right? I, I really, I really love that point 'cause it ties to what you shared with me [00:13:50] yesterday with- Yeah ... there's, there's nice haves and there's must haves.

[00:13:53] Ruben Harris: That's right. There's, there, like there's primary metrics, there's secondary metrics- You got 

[00:13:57] Lisa Ryerson: it ... 

[00:13:57] Ruben Harris: right? And- And 

[00:13:58] Lisa Ryerson: tertiary information ... 

[00:13:59] Ruben Harris: and tertiary [00:14:00] metrics, right? So you, you talked about obsession- 

[00:14:03] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:14:03] Ruben Harris: yesterday, too. 

[00:14:05] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:05] Ruben Harris: And you talked about- I did ... the importance of obsessing, not just [00:14:10] at the end when a student graduates- 

[00:14:12] Lisa Ryerson: Right

[00:14:12] Ruben Harris: and you're trying to get them to a job, which now schools are being held accountable to more- That's right ... you gotta obsess about it [00:14:20] in the beginning. 

[00:14:21] Lisa Ryerson: From the first time you meet them. 

[00:14:22] Ruben Harris: That's ri- exactly. And so obviously I'm very honored to be here with you because I've been studying SNHU [00:14:30] for a very long time.

[00:14:30] Ruben Harris: Thank you. And you all are known, and we haven't, you see we haven't talked about AI at all- No ... for having this obsession and this relationship with someone [00:14:40] throughout their entire student experience. Yes. And you all invented what I learned was a term called speed to lead- Speed to lead ... back in my career karma days.

[00:14:47] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:14:47] Ruben Harris: So can you talk about speed to [00:14:50] lead, why it's important, and the difference between, like, an, an inquiry or prospect and- 

[00:14:55] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:14:55] Ruben Harris: and that whole thing in 

[00:14:56] Lisa Ryerson: general? Sure. Happy to, and jump in and interrupt me- I will ... if I'm not, you know, quite [00:15:00] getting at what you hope this conversation will be for your listeners and viewers.

[00:15:04] Lisa Ryerson: Speed to lead. Part of you said, you know, why did I come to SNHU? So much of it was the mission, [00:15:10] and also since its founding- 

[00:15:12] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:15:13] Lisa Ryerson: leaders who- Absolutely obsessed about the experience for learners. That is [00:15:20] a throughput from 1932, from graduations with 50 learners on Hanover Street who were there, to graduations now with tens and tens of thousand.

[00:15:29] Lisa Ryerson: [00:15:30] Mm-hmm. So it was that culture that said, our learners, people need flexibility and adaptability, and when they have a moment in their life [00:15:40] to reach out to SNHU, our obligation back to them, that brand promise- Mm-hmm ... of opening up access, is to get to them in the moment that matters most for them. [00:15:50] Mm-hmm. So you're right, that speed to lead- Mm

[00:15:51] Lisa Ryerson: happened. Certainly AI was around then- Mm-hmm ... but it wasn't being used broadly. Mm-hmm. And well before AI, and I love that you asked [00:16:00] this, Ruben, because that core tenet- 

[00:16:02] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:16:02] Speaker 2: of what this community did- Mm-hmm ... and Paul LeBlanc and so many- Mm-hmm ... leaders who walked- Mm ... before me across the entire [00:16:10] organization- Mm-hmm

[00:16:10] Lisa Ryerson: set the course- Mm-hmm ... for our ability- Mm-hmm ... to be smarter about AI use- Mm-hmm ... because we will not lose the speed to lead notion- Mm-hmm ... [00:16:20] and the human- 

[00:16:21] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:16:22] Lisa Ryerson: in that loop as well as the AI. Mm-hmm. Why is it important at the beginning? You are greeting someone with a greeting that says, "I understand [00:16:30] you." Mm-hmm.

[00:16:30] Lisa Ryerson: "I understand that everyone has different lives that they're leading, that lives are complex." You might be working, caregiving- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... up and down the [00:16:40] chain- Mm-hmm ... working multiple jobs. Mm-hmm. If you think that you're, are interested in education at 10 o'clock at night- Mm-hmm ... and you have been thinking about it, and one of our commercials [00:16:50] comes up, we owe it to you To talk with you at that point.

[00:16:53] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. We owe you that same level of connection and support when you move into the enrollment funnel. [00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:01] Lisa Ryerson: We should see you- 

[00:17:03] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:17:04] Lisa Ryerson: as a recruit who will be an alumnus- 

[00:17:07] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:17:08] Lisa Ryerson: who should be with [00:17:10] us for a lifetime relationship where we can continue to coach, advise, learn from and with you- 

[00:17:17] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:17:17] Lisa Ryerson: and develop new programs, products, and [00:17:20] opportunities that help you continue to unlock opportunity.

[00:17:22] Ruben Harris: Beautifully said. And I, and if I, if I summarized it for people that are listening that- Yes ... may not have speed to leap, [00:17:30] 'cause on this journey speaking with higher ed leaders, it is actually shocking to me that- I know ... again, ignoring AI, almost zero schools have a outbound [00:17:40] call motion- Yes ... or personalized text message motion to serve a student in that moment that matters.

[00:17:47] Ruben Harris: What you said- Yes ... that stood out to me the most out of everything you just [00:17:50] said just now is we, it's important to reach out to the student at that moment that matters to them. It 

[00:17:54] Lisa Ryerson: is. 

[00:17:54] Ruben Harris: Right? It is. If they're out, and they're exhausted, and they're filling out a form, that might be the only moment that [00:18:00] they could focus on it, 'cause they got a lot of things going on in 

[00:18:02] Lisa Ryerson: their life.

[00:18:03] Lisa Ryerson: The n- the next day, life rushes back at you. 

[00:18:04] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:18:04] Lisa Ryerson: And the moment has passed. 

[00:18:06] Ruben Harris: Yes. So now let's talk about the- 

[00:18:08] Lisa Ryerson: But I wanna stay on something you [00:18:10] said. 

[00:18:10] Ruben Harris: Let's go. 

[00:18:10] Lisa Ryerson: Because as I've talked with you and learned more about your obsession- Mm-hmm ... which I value so much about this because it shows to me you care s- you're, you [00:18:20] obsess about someone's experience.

[00:18:21] Lisa Ryerson: That's 

[00:18:21] Lisa Ryerson: right. 

[00:18:21] Speaker 2: And about the power that, um, education can intervene at the right point and help. Mm-hmm. So you're obsessing about things that are critically important for higher education. Mm-hmm. [00:18:30] So thank you for that. Mm-hmm. I want to say that when I hear you talk about it, every place could do this. 

[00:18:35] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:18:36] Lisa Ryerson: So I want my colleagues to know, or anyone listening, it's not just about [00:18:40] being scaled.

[00:18:40] Lisa Ryerson: Yep. It's, um, it's a decision to make about a core value. 

[00:18:44] Speaker 3: Yep. 

[00:18:45] Lisa Ryerson: And then once you've made that decision to walk and work in a certain way, you build up the macro [00:18:50] processes- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... and the disciplined, and the workforce- Mm-hmm ... and the capacity with technology tools to get that done. 

[00:18:57] Ruben Harris: I, I love that you say that because, to your point, the purpose [00:19:00] of this is so as people are listening, that there's playbooks that they could take away.

[00:19:03] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:19:04] Ruben Harris: You, you brought up something else, which is, like, people that are left behind. 

[00:19:08] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:19:09] Ruben Harris: Right? [00:19:10] And even people that have decided to put in that obsession and that care to serve students There's limits to [00:19:20] human capacity- 

[00:19:21] Lisa Ryerson: That's 

[00:19:21] Ruben Harris: right ... to serve everyone. And so to get 300,000 plus students, there's probably millions of people that are coming to you.

[00:19:29] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:19:29] Ruben Harris: [00:19:30] And we talked about this yesterday, where there's some people that may not be able to get touched by a human so- Yes ... how are you thinking about reaching- Yeah ... people that may [00:19:40] not be that immediate conversion today? Because this is a big life decision, right? It's a big life 

[00:19:44] Lisa Ryerson: decision. 

[00:19:44] Ruben Harris: If I wanna, if I wanna invest in my education- 

[00:19:46] Lisa Ryerson: Yes

[00:19:47] Ruben Harris: and I fill out a form today, I might not [00:19:50] enroll till, like, six-plus months later. 

[00:19:51] Lisa Ryerson: Correct. 

[00:19:52] Ruben Harris: Right? 

[00:19:52] Lisa Ryerson: Correct. 

[00:19:52] Ruben Harris: So how do we serve those people that contacted us- Yeah ... but we may not have the human capacity to reach right now? Yeah. 

[00:19:59] Lisa Ryerson: [00:20:00] Well, and I want you to... I'm really curious. I continue to be curious about the way that you've thought about this- Mm-hmm

[00:20:04] Lisa Ryerson: as a founder, as a believer in people and capacity. Yes, I, you know, our mission is [00:20:10] access. Mm-hmm. And we are so proud- 

[00:20:13] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:20:13] Lisa Ryerson: about our continued focus on being open access. Mm-hmm. Why? At SNHU- [00:20:20] Mm-hmm ... I, we believe that everyone has potential. 

[00:20:25] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:25] Lisa Ryerson: And that our part of their journey- 

[00:20:27] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:20:27] Lisa Ryerson: is to help lift up their own [00:20:30] agency.

[00:20:30] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:31] Lisa Ryerson: Driving equitable outcomes means recognizing that even at scale, learners need different interventions- Mm-hmm ... and supports- 

[00:20:39] Speaker 3: [00:20:40] Mm-hmm ... 

[00:20:40] Lisa Ryerson: to complete their learning. 

[00:20:42] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:43] Lisa Ryerson: And so we have to, we can't have a human at- Mm-hmm ... every stage as we continue to grow. Mm-hmm. [00:20:50] But that original speed to lead- 

[00:20:52] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:20:52] Lisa Ryerson: led SNHU to build out, you know, a team of advisors- 

[00:20:57] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:20:57] Lisa Ryerson: for everything that we do- Mm-hmm ... who are the [00:21:00] humans- Mm-hmm ... who deeply know their group of learners- 

[00:21:03] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:21:04] Lisa Ryerson: who do proactive outreach- Yep ... and also take inbound messages from [00:21:10] them. But the thread is the person. 

[00:21:12] Speaker 3: Yep. 

[00:21:12] Lisa Ryerson: What excites me about- Mm ... our conversation is that- Mm ... in an agentic world- Mm-hmm ... where you recognize that an AI [00:21:20] agent- Mm-hmm

[00:21:20] Lisa Ryerson: in fact, can perform knowledge work- 

[00:21:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:21:23] Lisa Ryerson: on behalf of, and more importantly, with a human- 

[00:21:27] Speaker: Bingo ... s- 

[00:21:28] Lisa Ryerson: many more people [00:21:30] are left behind. Why are they left behind? Mm-hmm. Social structures. 

[00:21:32] Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:33] Lisa Ryerson: A long time history of people getting messages about who is a college student and who isn't. 

[00:21:37] Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:38] Lisa Ryerson: And that meant many things.

[00:21:39] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. It meant your [00:21:40] identity- Mm-hmm ... including your age. It meant where you lived and had access. It's not how we see it at SNHU. 

[00:21:44] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:45] Lisa Ryerson: So I'm thrilled that you recognize our size, and I want you to know that- Mm ... [00:21:50] anyone at SNHU would say that I tell them every day, we are not serving enough people. 

[00:21:54] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:21:54] Lisa Ryerson: We have to be bigger and bigger.

[00:21:55] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. To your question, it will require us to be smarter about [00:22:00] harnessing- Mm-hmm ... not just the power of technology- Mm-hmm ... the power of the agentic workforce. 

[00:22:06] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we- 

[00:22:07] Lisa Ryerson: How do you have people [00:22:10] and agents every step of that journey- Analyzing the data and knowing when to intervene, as well as answering inbound calls.

[00:22:19] Lisa Ryerson: [00:22:20] But if you answer only inbound, you are totally reactive. 

[00:22:23] Ruben Harris: Exactly. 

[00:22:23] Lisa Ryerson: And our work requires us to be daily intentionally proactive- 

[00:22:28] Ruben Harris: Yep, yep ... 

[00:22:29] Lisa Ryerson: on behalf [00:22:30] of our learners. 

[00:22:30] Ruben Harris: Yeah, and sometimes even anticipatory. And, and you asked how I think about it. 

[00:22:35] I 

[00:22:35] Lisa Ryerson: love 

[00:22:35] Ruben Harris: that, 

[00:22:35] Lisa Ryerson: anticipatory. Anticipatory, 

[00:22:37] Ruben Harris: right? It's almost like- Read 

[00:22:38] Lisa Ryerson: the signals

[00:22:38] Ruben Harris: we talked about hospitality, like you [00:22:40] and I- Yes ... at dinner last night. We didn't ask them to come to us to fill up our water glass. 

[00:22:45] Lisa Ryerson: They did. 

[00:22:45] Ruben Harris: They just came. They did. They noticed the water's empty, and they asked if you want another one, or they'll just [00:22:50] pour it. Yeah. So anticipating matters, too. 

[00:22:52] Lisa Ryerson: And they also checked in to see what cadence we want.

[00:22:54] Lisa Ryerson: They did. 

[00:22:54] Lisa Ryerson: Did you notice that? They did. They let us- And that's important for us in education as well ... they set the pace. Set the pace. 

[00:22:58] Ruben Harris: Yeah. So, [00:23:00] um, the way, the way I think about A lot of the things is, is exactly what you said about- Yeah ... with, right? 

[00:23:05] Lisa Ryerson: With. 

[00:23:06] Ruben Harris: First you have to accept that if [00:23:10] higher ed historically did not have internet, for example- Right

[00:23:13] Ruben Harris: or email or apps, but now they all do. Mm-hmm. Or even chatbots. Now they all do. 

[00:23:18] Speaker 2: Yes. 

[00:23:18] Ruben Harris: All right? You have to accept that [00:23:20] we are going to move into an agentic world. 

[00:23:22] Speaker 2: Yes. 

[00:23:22] Ruben Harris: Okay. If that is true, then there's probably gonna be more AI agents than humans that exist in the [00:23:30] world. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[00:23:31] Ruben Harris: That's just- No ... another node in the labor market. It is. It is. And so how do agents and humans work together to [00:23:40] serve those people? Yeah. And so to, to your point, as we think about the speed to lead notion- Yes. Yes ... right, there's a lot of repetitive things that humans do in a call [00:23:50] center that people do not want to do.

[00:23:52] Lisa Ryerson: Correct. I was gonna say call centers. 

[00:23:53] Ruben Harris: Right? 

[00:23:53] Lisa Ryerson: The humans do it because it's required of their job, but we're not allowing those employees [00:24:00] to lean into their highest purpose- 

[00:24:02] Ruben Harris: Yes ... 

[00:24:03] Lisa Ryerson: on behalf of our mission and on behalf of our learners- And we're gonna talk about that part ... and university. I am with you on this.

[00:24:08] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. I would also say [00:24:10] that I do agree with you. It's evolving and much faster than many are comfortable with. And as I shared with you last night at dinner, I mean, there are things that happen that if you're [00:24:20] aware, as you and I and our colleagues are, sometimes it does feel scary. Or, as I said to you, there are things that happen that feel a little freaky.

[00:24:26] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. Yeah. It's okay to acknowledge that, but if you put- [00:24:30] if you get buried there or anchored there- Mm ... you don't move forward- Yeah ... on behalf of your mission. 

[00:24:34] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:24:34] Lisa Ryerson: The time is now. 

[00:24:36] Ruben Harris: The time is now, and- The 

[00:24:37] Lisa Ryerson: time is now ... 

[00:24:38] Ruben Harris: and some of those examples of things [00:24:40] that people don't wanna do, for example, is sitting on the phone waiting for somebody to pick up.

[00:24:45] Lisa Ryerson: I know. 

[00:24:46] Lisa Ryerson: Right? That doesn't necessarily mean that the student doesn't wanna talk to [00:24:50] you now. 

[00:24:51] Lisa Ryerson: Right. 

[00:24:52] Lisa Ryerson: Or it, it doesn't mean- necessarily mean that the student doesn't wanna hear from you. They may not wanna hear from you now. Now. They might not be ready to talk to- That's right ... a human yet. [00:25:00] That's right. So the agent can either answer their questions, guide them to whatever resource they need to process on their own, and then warm transfer that to a human.

[00:25:07] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. And now it's, now the people in [00:25:10] the call center are just answering calls from people that wanna talk to them- That's right ... that were handed to them by the agent- 

[00:25:15] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... that the agent gave them up ... warm, really warm handoffs. 

[00:25:17] Lisa Ryerson: Warm handoffs, right. 

[00:25:17] Lisa Ryerson: Well, it's also about capacity. 

[00:25:19] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:25:19] Lisa Ryerson: [00:25:20] As I hear you speak it about, about it in that way, that you're doing the funneling.

[00:25:23] Lisa Ryerson: You're looking at your funnel- Yeah ... and you're tiering your funnel- Yeah ... so that the human energy is spent where it needs to be spent. Yeah. I, you know, we often [00:25:30] talk about it as, you know, how you equip our, our advisors- Mm-hmm ... everyone in student experience at SNHU. It really is a system that takes- Mm-hmm

[00:25:37] Lisa Ryerson: that full loop- Mm-hmm ... for the life cycle of a [00:25:40] student journey. Agents can help build- A total toolbox. Yeah. You know, think about that. Mm-hmm. Like the Swiss Army tool- Mm-hmm ... or suit. Mm-hmm. You know, a Marvel suit. Yeah. An Iron Man suit. Yeah. [00:25:50] For, for our advisors so that they have the tools at their hands and the agents are doing work that helps them understand who needs your attention today.

[00:25:57] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. 

[00:25:57] Lisa Ryerson: I'm excited about it. We are working in that space. [00:26:00] But I w- and I would say to you as we talked last night, I think a risk in higher education, um, for leaders is that you know that it's moving fast. It's [00:26:10] perfectly okay to say, "I don't understand it all." Yeah. The plan shouldn't be just to go buy a bunch of things- Mm-hmm

[00:26:16] Lisa Ryerson: tools or agents from my view, Ruben. Mm-hmm. I, I don't, [00:26:20] I wanna know about your view. I, I, I agree with you. Or a bunch of licenses without understanding first what is the capacity of the organization, what's your data structure [00:26:30] What is the capacity of your people to be able to implement with fidelity and ROI- Mm-hmm

[00:26:37] Lisa Ryerson: anything you bring into your environment? Yes. And that's about [00:26:40] setting the right pace. Yeah. Because otherwi- and what are you willing to risk? To your test and learn example. Yes. What, what are you willing to spend in money or risk in the experience so that you can pilot, [00:26:50] test, learn, iterate? Lean start-up methodology- 

[00:26:53] Ruben Harris: Yeah.

[00:26:53] Lisa Ryerson: You, a- ... matters a lot ... 

[00:26:54] Ruben Harris: and you, a lot of people think you can't be risk-averse and take risks, but you actually can. 

[00:26:58] Lisa Ryerson: Both can be true [00:27:00] at the same time. 

[00:27:00] Ruben Harris: At the same time. And, um, just, just to end on the other piece around, like, the, the, how I think about it, there are metrics- [00:27:10] Yes ... that take time to show up. 

[00:27:11] Lisa Ryerson: They do.

[00:27:12] Ruben Harris: But there are metrics that can show up in a day or a week- 

[00:27:16] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:27:16] Ruben Harris: that can help you decide what to buy and not to [00:27:20] buy. 

[00:27:20] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. 

[00:27:20] Ruben Harris: And humans already do things like this. I think enrollment is a great area to- Yes ... do it. I think call centers often get a bad rep. [00:27:30] If you just hear the word call center- I know.

[00:27:31] Ruben Harris: I know ... almost like you hear the word sales. 

[00:27:33] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:27:34] Ruben Harris: A call center at a school is not cold outbound spam. 

[00:27:38] Lisa Ryerson: No, it's not. 

[00:27:38] Ruben Harris: It's warm outbound [00:27:40] to people that reach out asking for help and guidance for a question- Yes ... and figuring out how to show them. And then if you help them, those numbers show up immediately.

[00:27:48] Ruben Harris: Did that inquiry start an [00:27:50] application? Did that application- Yes ... complete? Are they stuck 'cause they don't have money and they need financial aid? That's right. What are you doing? You're- Like, 

[00:27:55] Lisa Ryerson: what is their barrier? ... 

[00:27:56] Ruben Harris: you're giving them the resources. Yes. Do they need a laptop? Do they need health- [00:28:00] Like, there's different...

[00:28:00] Ruben Harris: Do they 

[00:28:01] Lisa Ryerson: need housing? That's the way we do it. 

[00:28:02] Ruben Harris: Right? 

[00:28:02] Lisa Ryerson: What do you... Basic needs we talked about. 

[00:28:03] Ruben Harris: These are all things that, like, okay, let's say that a agent finds out that someone needs housing- 

[00:28:08] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:28:08] Ruben Harris: or whatever, [00:28:10] the human can help them figure that out. 

[00:28:11] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. Or all of the pre-work we do at SNHU, you know, you're bringing this to the fore for me, is yes, students need the technological tools- Mm-hmm

[00:28:19] Lisa Ryerson: to work in our [00:28:20] environment, whether wherever they are learning- Mm-hmm ... in place or online, and we owe them the training- 

[00:28:26] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[00:28:26] Lisa Ryerson: about what platforms they'll be in, how they can [00:28:30] navigate that. It's how you are setting the stage for success at every moment in the journey. 

[00:28:35] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:28:36] Lisa Ryerson: And not leaving it all to someone, not because they can't do it.

[00:28:39] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:28:39] Lisa Ryerson: [00:28:40] But we have to help them with, with agency. 

[00:28:41] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:28:42] Lisa Ryerson: I need, we all need that- We all need it ... across our entire life. 

[00:28:44] Ruben Harris: Yes. And one of the, my favorite phrases that you shared yesterday was always, to what [00:28:50] end, 

[00:28:50] Lisa Ryerson: right? I ask that question several times a day, to what end? And I think it's critically important- In this environment.

[00:28:57] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:58] Lisa Ryerson: Because there is so much [00:29:00] coming at us about the evolution of higher education, and we're in a very, not just education- Mm ... but in the education sector, converging headwinds- Mm-hmm ... that make this a [00:29:10] very, very challenging time. So the urge is, if I have a sales pitch- 

[00:29:14] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:29:15] Lisa Ryerson: as you said- Yeah ... if it's just a pitch and not substantive, then I'll buy it.

[00:29:19] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. And that will [00:29:20] solve my problems. And that's why the to what end question is so important. Mm-hmm. The to what end is, is that actually the piece of the journey that I need to solve- Mm-hmm ... right now? 

[00:29:28] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:29] Lisa Ryerson: Is that [00:29:30] an intervention where I have evidence from an earlier pilot or test and learn that it will move the needle- 

[00:29:36] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm

[00:29:36] Lisa Ryerson: for a student and multiple students- 

[00:29:39] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:29:39] Lisa Ryerson: [00:29:40] to get to scale? Is it repeatable? 

[00:29:42] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:42] Lisa Ryerson: Scale requires processes- I love that point ... and tools. You get a flywheel of excellence going. That means that you're not [00:29:50] leaving the knowledge in a workaround situation with a group of people who've done it a long time- Mm-hmm

[00:29:55] Lisa Ryerson: but that you or I could step in and get on the flywheel. 

[00:29:58] Ruben Harris: I mean, I, the- 

[00:29:58] Lisa Ryerson: Repeat that process- That- ... and [00:30:00] that drives excellence. 

[00:30:00] Ruben Harris: That repeatable point is so funny to me, 'cause you a- we were talking about- 

[00:30:04] Lisa Ryerson: We were ... 

[00:30:05] Ruben Harris: different, uh, companies that have come to Arrival to do business. [00:30:10] Yes. And I've told you, I've said no to certain things, and part of the reason why I say no to certain things is because- Yeah

[00:30:15] Ruben Harris: it's not repeatable. 

[00:30:16] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. 

[00:30:17] Ruben Harris: Right? If I can do something with someone, I want [00:30:20] it to be something that's repeatable- Yes ... in multiple areas. Yes. And going back to this point about to what end and, and the metrics, I would say, uh, what, w- when you think of... You said something [00:30:30] about, like, the importance of not being so certain.

[00:30:33] Ruben Harris: Right? 

[00:30:33] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, yes. 

[00:30:34] Ruben Harris: And you said more curiosity, less certainty. 

[00:30:36] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:30:36] Ruben Harris: So even though you are going towards a [00:30:40] specific goal- Yes ... like, can you talk about more curiosity, less certainty? 

[00:30:44] Lisa Ryerson: I think it's a way of walking in work. 

[00:30:47] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:47] Lisa Ryerson: And for me, it's essential. 

[00:30:49] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:49] Lisa Ryerson: [00:30:50] For everyone. 

[00:30:50] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:51] Lisa Ryerson: Um, certainly for learning. 

[00:30:53] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:53] Lisa Ryerson: Right? Do you get the value if you aren't curious, right? Mm-hmm. If you just accept everything. Mm-hmm. Certainly in these times. Yeah. We talked about sort of the echo [00:31:00] chambers- 

[00:31:00] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:31:00] Lisa Ryerson: of information in this time- Mm-hmm ... of our devices and- Though I do believe in gamification, you know that Yeah, we 

[00:31:07] Speaker 3: both 

[00:31:07] Lisa Ryerson: do So for me, curiosity [00:31:10] has to be the way that we, that I walk in the work as the president and that everyone does.

[00:31:13] Lisa Ryerson: And what I mean by that is I should not assume that I am asking all of the questions that [00:31:20] need to be asked, and I certainly greet every day being sure that I don't assume that I have all the answers 

[00:31:25] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm 

[00:31:27] Lisa Ryerson: And it, curiosity, um, [00:31:30] allows us to every day want to unlock new relationship, to learn something new, to ask better questions, to look at data in new ways Mm-hmm Certainty [00:31:40] to me is to be avoided.

[00:31:41] Lisa Ryerson: Now, are there things that you and I are talking about where you're really certain? 

[00:31:44] Ruben Harris: Yes I know, I know that 

[00:31:45] Lisa Ryerson: You know that. You know? And you know it, and you know it when you're looking at the data- Mm ... and you better move when the [00:31:50] data tells you that Mm-hmm But certainty to me means that someone is hardened in a position 

[00:31:54] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm

[00:31:58] Lisa Ryerson: And with the [00:32:00] world evolving as fast as it is, I believe that that's a dangerous stance for a leader to take- 

[00:32:05] Ruben Harris: Who was 

[00:32:05] Lisa Ryerson: it? ... or a person to take. 

[00:32:06] Ruben Harris: Was it, was it... I forgot who the philosopher was, but [00:32:10] it's the, "I'm the wisest person in the world 'cause I know that I know nothing." 

[00:32:12] Lisa Ryerson: I know nothing. 

[00:32:13] Ruben Harris: Right? 

[00:32:13] Lisa Ryerson: That's 

[00:32:13] Ruben Harris: right.

[00:32:14] Ruben Harris: It's the most common- 

[00:32:15] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah ... 

[00:32:15] Ruben Harris: understanding. Yes. Like, if you stay humble and open- 

[00:32:18] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:32:18] Ruben Harris: then you're not gonna [00:32:20] be preserving structures and- 

[00:32:21] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:32:22] Ruben Harris: leading managed decline- Yeah ... which is your line that you shared yesterday. I, 

[00:32:25] Lisa Ryerson: I'm a, I, I meditate. 

[00:32:27] Ruben Harris: Uh-huh. 

[00:32:27] Lisa Ryerson: And, and one of my daily [00:32:30] routines, even before I enter any space- Mm-hmm

[00:32:32] Lisa Ryerson: whether it's my workspace or I'm on vacation, is to ask myself to be open to the gift of having awareness where I do not have it. 

[00:32:39] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. [00:32:40] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:41] Lisa Ryerson: That's- It, it centers me. 

[00:32:42] Ruben Harris: No, I think, I think meditation's key. I have the, um, the Open app. I don't know if you play with that. Oh, 

[00:32:47] Lisa Ryerson: I do. 

[00:32:47] Ruben Harris: That's a great app. I 

[00:32:48] Lisa Ryerson: do.

[00:32:48] Ruben Harris: Um, what's the [00:32:50] cost of not being curious and, and preserving a structure? 

[00:32:54] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. 

[00:32:54] Ruben Harris: And, and, and I, and I ask this question, I know it is defina- it's definitely a leading question. 

[00:32:59] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. 

[00:32:59] Ruben Harris: [00:33:00] But, like- 

[00:33:00] Lisa Ryerson: It's the right, one of the right questions to be asking, Ruben ... it's the 

[00:33:02] Ruben Harris: right question to ask, yeah, so. 

[00:33:03] Lisa Ryerson: I think it's the right question.

[00:33:05] Lisa Ryerson: That, uh, part of the success that I was so fortunate to join at SNHU and now [00:33:10] to be accountable to lead SNHU into the next era, is that- SNHU is truly built. Do you know how you hear learner 

[00:33:19] Lisa Ryerson: centricity? [00:33:20] Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:20] Lisa Ryerson: From the opening days in 1932, today, 2026, the learner truly is at the center of every decision that we make.

[00:33:28] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. And we have a lot of [00:33:30] learners, and we understand that there's a diversity of experience for those learners. What I mean about that is, we don't make a decision because it allows us to keep [00:33:40] the same structure that we have as an organization. Every decision we make will advance opportunity for the learner.

[00:33:48] Lisa Ryerson: Now, obviously, there are structural [00:33:50] decisions- Mm ... in higher ed about compliance requirements, about being committed to both open access and the high quality that every person deserves in their education. [00:34:00] Mm-hmm. But if your view- Mm-hmm ... is the way I've planned my university, whatever the divisions are, the departments, your product set- 

[00:34:08] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:34:09] Lisa Ryerson: your delivery [00:34:10] systems- Mm-hmm ... your tech stack- 

[00:34:11] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:34:12] Lisa Ryerson: is to preserve that, I think there is great risk there. I would call it grave risk there- 

[00:34:19] Ruben Harris: Mm. 

[00:34:19] Lisa Ryerson: [00:34:20] Mm-hmm ... for higher education. 

[00:34:21] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. That's the way- 

[00:34:22] Lisa Ryerson: Colleges and universities ... 

[00:34:23] Ruben Harris: that's the best way and most eloquent way to put it. Um, and before going into the systems in higher ed, [00:34:30] I just wanna bring up the point again- Yes

[00:34:32] Ruben Harris: which is you can be both risk-averse. 

[00:34:35] Lisa Ryerson: You have to 

[00:34:36] Ruben Harris: be. You can make evidence-based decisions that lead to positive change. [00:34:40] Yes. But it's important to potentially time box the decisions on a shorter timeline to try, test, and tune, and then create what you call [00:34:50] after action reports. 

[00:34:51] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, yes. 

[00:34:51] Ruben Harris: Talk about that. 

[00:34:52] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, I'm a big believer.

[00:34:52] Lisa Ryerson: So I wanna go back to what you said, though, about risk. You can be risk-averse, and you must be, I'm telling you, and also make decisions. [00:35:00] Mm-hmm. What you can't miss- 

[00:35:01] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:35:02] Lisa Ryerson: as a university president is always calling the question of what is the risk here. Mm. Because your mind can take you- Mm-hmm ... down many [00:35:10] paths- Mm-hmm

[00:35:10] Lisa Ryerson: about risk, or the history of a place- Mm-hmm ... can tell... Do you know how you, people have in their head the story the way they've heard it? 

[00:35:17] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:35:17] Lisa Ryerson: And so tapes often play. 

[00:35:19] Speaker 3: Whatever 

[00:35:19] Lisa Ryerson: you think is gonna be what it's gonna be. This is the [00:35:20] story of whatever you think. Yeah. That is your story. So asking about clear evidence about what the risks are is just a wise thing to do, especially in this time- Mm-hmm

[00:35:29] Lisa Ryerson: where we [00:35:30] know the world of AI has any number of risks that we could talk about. But once you know that, then you move into what's my mitigation plan? Yeah. If I still believe that is the right decision to be [00:35:40] making, how do I mitigate that risk? And how do you wring out what's the residual risk that's left?

[00:35:45] Lisa Ryerson: There you go. And af- 

[00:35:46] Lisa Ryerson: After you have mitigation strategies. And, and are you able [00:35:50] Your organization to manage residual risk. Yeah. So again, that very notion of being risk-averse and also taking risks is evidence-based, and a very disciplined [00:36:00] process- Yeah ... that has a set of steps, uh, steps in it- 

[00:36:02] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:36:03] Lisa Ryerson: I- ... as well

[00:36:03] Ruben Harris: I love that, um, not only did you frame the importance of naming what the risk [00:36:10] is, but earlier when I asked a question- Yes ... you said it was the right question. 

[00:36:13] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:36:15] Ruben Harris: What I learned in Silicon Valley is a lot of time when people think about risk outside of [00:36:20] Silicon Valley- Mm-hmm ... they think about it in a way where they're looking at the downside, right?

[00:36:24] Ruben Harris: Yes. But in Silicon Valley, the question is not what's the worst that could happen- What's 

[00:36:27] Ruben Harris: the best that 

[00:36:28] Lisa Ryerson: could happen ... it's what's the best that could happen? If you [00:36:30] orient yourself on what's the best that could happen, even if there's like a 1% likelihood that it can happen and you do all these things like bring in the right team or- Yes

[00:36:39] Ruben Harris: [00:36:40] work with somebody that's established with the skill set or whatever- Yes ... to increase the likelihood that it happens, then you start operating from a different framework. Okay, I'm scared of this. Okay, cool. If I do this, [00:36:50] then maybe, you know, I can get to this place. So what the, what's the best that could happen is, is a very important thing 

[00:36:55] Lisa Ryerson: to think about.

[00:36:55] Lisa Ryerson: I, I really appreciate that framing, and I think sometimes the way I talk about it is are you gonna be [00:37:00] stuck in place? Are you an organization and a group of people who are moving toward? Yes. Moving toward. Always identifying even challenges or opportunities- Mm-hmm ... are you moving toward. I [00:37:10] think we get stuck- 

[00:37:11] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:37:11] Speaker 2: when we believe the structure of a sector or of a place- is what we're fighting for- 

[00:37:18] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[00:37:18] Lisa Ryerson: or preserving. [00:37:20] From my point of view, I love talking with my colleagues about this, you know what I'm fighting for? Right. For there to be more educational opportunities available. I don't want colleges and universities to close, you know, I [00:37:30] don't.

[00:37:30] Lisa Ryerson: Not at all. I think that's horrible for people and for communities and for our sector. So that's what I'm fighting for. 

[00:37:36] Ruben Harris: Yeah. I'm fighting for that as well. Right. And, and speaking of [00:37:40] systems, okay, let's talk about that. Let's talk about systems. 

[00:37:43] Lisa Ryerson: Sure. 

[00:37:43] Ruben Harris: Higher ed, we know the systems that we've invested in- 

[00:37:47] Lisa Ryerson: We do

[00:37:47] Ruben Harris: are not AI native. [00:37:50] They are not. But we know that the world is moving to an agentic AI native future. Correct. Okay. Cool. So- 

[00:37:57] Lisa Ryerson: Yep ... 

[00:37:57] Ruben Harris: you, yesterday you said, "So [00:38:00] what is the question that we should be asking for, as higher ed leaders, to bring in people that can help us get there?" What, what- Oh ... you started talking about that.

[00:38:09] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, yes. [00:38:10] I wanna talk about that. Yeah. And I'm gonna wander on this a little bit. That's, I'll, okay. And you ask questions- I will, I will ... so that you're sure from your point of view that I'm on track. I think that is the essential question to ask. 

[00:38:19] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:19] Lisa Ryerson: [00:38:20] And what got us to where we are today- Mm-hmm ... will not get us into the future.

[00:38:25] Lisa Ryerson: Period. And I mean that. I'm gonna own that. I'm not talking about any other- Mm-hmm ... leaders, college or [00:38:30] university, though I would have that conversation. I'm talking about that from Southern New Hampshire University. Mm-hmm. Except in our DNA- 

[00:38:36] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:38:36] Lisa Ryerson: is a culture of iteration- Yeah ... from the earliest [00:38:40] days, a real, uh, clap line- Mm-hmm

[00:38:43] Lisa Ryerson: for our learners and our people when they lean into- 

[00:38:46] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:38:46] Lisa Ryerson: new ideas. And so I am so fortunate that I have a [00:38:50] community of people who are curious about what's next. Yeah, 

[00:38:54] Speaker 3: yeah. 

[00:38:54] Lisa Ryerson: So, you know. 

[00:38:55] Speaker 3: Absolutely. 

[00:38:55] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. I start from that. That has allowed us to think very strategically [00:39:00] about the following. Mm-hmm. We cannot tweak our way to the future.

[00:39:04] Lisa Ryerson: I just will share that with you. I couldn't agree more. That is my belief. 

[00:39:06] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:39:07] Lisa Ryerson: When you have systems that are not [00:39:10] AI native- 

[00:39:11] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:39:12] Lisa Ryerson: I applaud all of the efforts of many of our platform partners or other partners who are working aggressively- 

[00:39:18] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:39:18] Lisa Ryerson: to, [00:39:20] um, reinvent their product set. 

[00:39:22] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:23] Lisa Ryerson: But re- by its nature- 

[00:39:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:39:26] Lisa Ryerson: there is some tweaking there. 

[00:39:27] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:39:28] Lisa Ryerson: What I'm really curious [00:39:30] about are organizations, platform companies, including our own work on our own new AI human development platform, that [00:39:40] starts from an AI native lens. Mm-hmm. That, that is, um- The best of whiteboarding. 

[00:39:46] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:47] Lisa Ryerson: It takes you back into the space of what is [00:39:50] true- Mm-hmm

[00:39:50] Lisa Ryerson: what are the true tenets- 

[00:39:51] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:39:51] Lisa Ryerson: of education, what you must have- 

[00:39:55] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:39:56] Lisa Ryerson: to generate, um, a learning experience that [00:40:00] has return on investment, and I use that- Yeah. It's key ... language specifically for our learners, and it creates an openness when you leave your [00:40:10] assumptions at the door about what a system of learning is.

[00:40:12] Lisa Ryerson: So I'm with you. I, I, I wish the speed would pick up- 

[00:40:16] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:40:17] Lisa Ryerson: um, for AI native [00:40:20] product sets, but some of what I learned from you last night- Mm-hmm ... though I study the field daily- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... is that there are many- 

[00:40:26] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[00:40:26] Lisa Ryerson: you know, new startups and other organizations, and even more [00:40:30] mature organizations- Mm-hmm

[00:40:31] Lisa Ryerson: that are in this space. Mm-hmm. I think if we don't do that in building new systems, we're at risk of allowing, uh, [00:40:40] my very treasured and cherished colleagues at some- Mm-hmm ... of the frontier labs- Mm-hmm ... um, to make decisions on behalf of higher education. Yeah. Why would we ever cede our [00:40:50] authority on- Doesn't make sense

[00:40:51] Lisa Ryerson: what learning is- 

[00:40:52] Ruben Harris: Yeah ... 

[00:40:52] Lisa Ryerson: and what learning must be- Yeah ... for people and for communities? 

[00:40:56] Ruben Harris: And e- empathizing with our esteemed [00:41:00] colleagues- 

[00:41:00] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... right, 

[00:41:01] Ruben Harris: I understand why the default is to go with what you know, 

[00:41:07] Lisa Ryerson: right? Oh, you have to keep 

[00:41:08] Ruben Harris: running. And, and, and, and who you [00:41:10] know. Yes. Right? Because, you know, the most expensive, uh, uh, question in business is, "We've always done it that way," right?

[00:41:16] Ruben Harris: And, and- It's- ... and, and, and to your point, if you- 

[00:41:19] Lisa Ryerson: I'm smiling [00:41:20] because- Yeah ... I don't ever wanna hear that. 

[00:41:23] Ruben Harris: I don't. Yeah, right. And- And it goes back to what you said. My, my mother told me, "If you always do what you've always done, you always get what you always got." You 

[00:41:29] Lisa Ryerson: get the same [00:41:30] result. 

[00:41:30] Ruben Harris: Which is the same thing that you said, which is like- I love that your 

[00:41:31] Lisa Ryerson: mother said that

[00:41:31] Ruben Harris: what got you here won't get you there, right? 

[00:41:33] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. 

[00:41:34] Ruben Harris: Same thing that we talked- Yeah ... about before. Yeah. But going back to being risk-averse- 

[00:41:37] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:41:38] Ruben Harris: and relationships, which we'll [00:41:40] get into in a second- Yeah ... um, trust matters, right? Oh, for sure. So you're gonna go- 

[00:41:45] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah ... 

[00:41:45] Ruben Harris: with who you've been familiar with, but if they're not saying [00:41:50] Or working with you and just kinda like selling their book.

[00:41:54] Lisa Ryerson: I know. 

[00:41:54] Ruben Harris: How are you going to- 

[00:41:56] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:41:56] Ruben Harris: prepare students that are aligned with the [00:42:00] mission of your organization? 

[00:42:01] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:42:01] Ruben Harris: And that's why, like, when we had this conversation and started highlighting other players- How, 

[00:42:04] Lisa Ryerson: how, and how I do that work- Yes ... I think is likely what you want me to talk about, Ruben, which is that for me, [00:42:10] those best relationships, first of all, I have...

[00:42:13] Lisa Ryerson: A decision I made- Mm-hmm ... was that I wanted SNHU to own, to see ourselves as a build culture- Yes ... in this [00:42:20] time. And to see yourself as a build culture does not mean you build everything yourself- Mm-hmm ... in a bespoke way. It could mean that- Mm-hmm ... for certain parts of a new system. 

[00:42:27] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:28] Lisa Ryerson: But it does mean that you, [00:42:30] you, you educate and train the entire employee base- 

[00:42:33] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:42:33] Lisa Ryerson: in the world of agentic AI- Yep ... getting to super intelligence- Mm-hmm ... at some point, as- Mm-hmm ... we've talked about. Mm-hmm. [00:42:40] And you ca- Right now, we have performance targets- Mm-hmm ... around this for ourselves- Mm ... to help all of our people to set a baseline measure. What is their skill [00:42:50] level with AI- 

[00:42:51] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:42:51] Lisa Ryerson: against what it should be for each role?

[00:42:53] Speaker 3: Yep. 

[00:42:53] Lisa Ryerson: What is their confidence level, which we own? 

[00:42:55] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:56] Lisa Ryerson: And when you get that baseline to hold ourselves accountable for [00:43:00] increases- Mm-hmm ... in skills and in confidence. 

[00:43:02] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:03] Lisa Ryerson: Why is that important? I think everyone in our organization will be working alongside AI, and some will be managing both [00:43:10] people and agents.

[00:43:11] Lisa Ryerson: So investing in our people first- Mm-hmm ... so that they are ready to maximize the leverage- Mm-hmm ... that an AI native or [00:43:20] agentic environment can provide for our learners and our mission, have to invest in, in people first. I also, Ruben, as I shared with you, realized what I didn't [00:43:30] know. Mm-hmm. And I, I shared with you that Authenticity matters so much for me.

[00:43:35] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:43:37] Lisa Ryerson: And that I didn't, do not ever want to be the [00:43:40] university president of any place, but of the largest, I want to be, but I'm the one of the presidents of one of the largest colleges and universities, learning enterprises in [00:43:50] the nation. When you listen to me speak, you expect, and you should expect, that I've done that work- Yeah, sure

[00:43:56] Lisa Ryerson: and I know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Not just that I've done a lit review, [00:44:00] though I love to do them- 

[00:44:01] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[00:44:01] Lisa Ryerson: um, but that I've indexed- Yeah ... on over-learning and AI. So I asked our chief AI officer, George Siemen, if you [00:44:10] don't know him- Mm-hmm ... everyone, you know- Do your research ... read and do your research and learn about George, to create with our AI team an executive boot camp- Mm-hmm

[00:44:18] Lisa Ryerson: for my executive team. 

[00:44:19] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. [00:44:20] 

[00:44:20] Lisa Ryerson: And for six weeks, we worked together with daily assignments, lunch and learns, and it was in the flow of work. Mm-hmm. So we [00:44:30] learned where AI would be powerful in our roles. Mm-hmm. Mine for president, which is different than the CFO- Mm-hmm ... which is different from the COO, which is different from the provost or the CMO- So it's custom by role

[00:44:39] Lisa Ryerson: the marketing officer, or the [00:44:40] student. And so you learn in the flow of work. So we learned where it belongs, and more importantly, where it doesn't. 

[00:44:46] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:44:47] Lisa Ryerson: Now we are rolling that out across the [00:44:50] entire organization. I love that. So it's now down to the next tiers of leaders. How can I expect them To speak about this, to make decent decisions when they're talking [00:45:00] with vendors, or I don't see our vendors as vendors.

[00:45:03] Lisa Ryerson: If they're great, they're my strategic partners- 

[00:45:06] Ruben Harris: There you go ... 

[00:45:07] Lisa Ryerson: at SNHU if I don't invest in their learning. 

[00:45:09] Ruben Harris: [00:45:10] Yeah. Yeah. How can you, how- 

[00:45:11] Lisa Ryerson: But build first. It's a cultural move that we're making at SNHU- Yeah, I mean ... to 

[00:45:15] Ruben Harris: be 

[00:45:15] Lisa Ryerson: builders. 

[00:45:15] Ruben Harris: I think, and, and, and common culture is just don't talk about it, be about it. You can't [00:45:20] teach students how to use AI if you don't use AI.

[00:45:22] Lisa Ryerson: Don't talk about it. Does it make any sense? Be about it. It's authenticity. 

[00:45:24] Ruben Harris: Yeah. It's, it's about- Right ... being genuine. It's about being real. And I love- 

[00:45:28] Lisa Ryerson: You know, I used to teach fifth and [00:45:30] eighth grade. 

[00:45:30] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[00:45:30] Lisa Ryerson: And I learned that lesson not just from my own family, but powerfully then. Mm-hmm. Because to be clear, you're standing up in front of a group of fifth graders or eighth graders.

[00:45:39] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. They [00:45:40] know if you aren't real. 

[00:45:41] Ruben Harris: They're gonna spot it- 

[00:45:42] Lisa Ryerson: And they let you know ... 

[00:45:43] Lisa Ryerson: instantly. 

[00:45:44] Lisa Ryerson: It was great training for the college presidency. 

[00:45:45] Ruben Harris: Yeah. And, and I love that you don't just focus it on your leadership team, like the [00:45:50] whole- 

[00:45:50] Lisa Ryerson: Whole place ... 

[00:45:50] Ruben Harris: organization needs to understand it- We 

[00:45:52] Lisa Ryerson: did that rollout- ... in a privacy

[00:45:53] Lisa Ryerson: with Copilot, Ruben. Yeah. I don't know if I shared that with you totally. You- Which is just one possible tool. We're a Microsoft environment, and we [00:46:00] started with required training- 

[00:46:01] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:46:01] Lisa Ryerson: that individuals could do digitally. 

[00:46:03] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:03] Lisa Ryerson: Then we rolled out in cohort groups. 

[00:46:05] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:05] Lisa Ryerson: And they had peer learning and coaching.

[00:46:08] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. And we had coaches who [00:46:10] were champions- Mm-hmm ... of the rollout. And you t- one level, then we had more champions next level, and we rolled out successfully to more than [00:46:20] 5,000, our full-time- Mm-hmm ... population. 

[00:46:22] Ruben Harris: I, no, I, I remember that. And that, and that was a great story. Yeah. And I love it, and it's a, it's a known name, Microsoft, right?

[00:46:29] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. But last night- It's 

[00:46:29] Lisa Ryerson: [00:46:30] one of many tools. 

[00:46:30] Ruben Harris: Last night you shared something that people might be like, "Why does this touch your heart?" It touched my heart because I was like, you fondly [00:46:40] talked about a strategic partner. 

[00:46:41] Lisa Ryerson: I did. 

[00:46:42] Lisa Ryerson: EdSites. 

[00:46:43] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:46:43] Lisa Ryerson: And you said, "You know, uh, we really partner with them on, with Penny AI and all these things."

[00:46:47] Lisa Ryerson: And I was like, wow. Like, this is not just [00:46:50] a vendor. 

[00:46:50] Lisa Ryerson: No. 

[00:46:50] Lisa Ryerson: This is somebody- No ... that established a real relationship where in a dinner conversation, she's just casually talking about them. Yes. Not just you. 

[00:46:59] Lisa Ryerson: No. [00:47:00] 

[00:47:00] Lisa Ryerson: Libby. My team. Siobhan. Siobhan. They're talking about it. I'm like, "Hmm, how did they do that?" I, I- So, so ta- so talk to me about that relationship- I love your-

[00:47:07] Speaker: 'cause it's not a known name ... 

[00:47:08] Lisa Ryerson: Ruben, I love your [00:47:10] careful listening. Mm. Because I do speak about them fondly. 

[00:47:12] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:13] Lisa Ryerson: Both the founders- Mm-hmm ... and their team members. And the reason why that is a Great strategic [00:47:20] partnership is that we invested in the relationship and in them from their earliest days. 

[00:47:25] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:26] Lisa Ryerson: Why? This is a group of builders and leaders [00:47:30] who knew that their success and our success was and is, was and is dependent upon them embedding- 

[00:47:37] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:47:38] Lisa Ryerson: with our teams. 

[00:47:38] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:39] Lisa Ryerson: So they're [00:47:40] not coming in casually and saying, "Here, you know, give us some report." They obsess- Mm-hmm ... about SNHU's relationships with our learners as much [00:47:50] as we obsess- Mm-hmm

[00:47:51] Lisa Ryerson: about our relationship and our commitment to our learners. Mm-hmm. And they have been on a learning journey with us- Mm-hmm ... letting us know what [00:48:00] works and what doesn't work, being willing to step in and try pilots with us. Mm-hmm. Um, they're us. Yeah. So yes, they are their own company- Mm-hmm ... and to some degree then you [00:48:10] would call them a vendor.

[00:48:11] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:12] Lisa Ryerson: I see them as an extension of the SNHU team. Mm-hmm. I love that. I am so glad that you picked up on that. I- And I, Penny the chatbot has been a [00:48:20] game changer, and they're- Mm ... they're, you know, investing in many, many more uses of AI that are helpful for us, but an absolute game changer for our learners at SNHU and for our people.[00:48:30] 

[00:48:30] Ruben Harris: Yeah. No. I th- I think, I think it's a very special- And 

[00:48:33] Lisa Ryerson: not a name that you said. 

[00:48:34] Speaker: Yeah. 

[00:48:34] Lisa Ryerson: You know it, but that o- others wouldn't necessarily know. 

[00:48:37] Ruben Harris: Yeah. And I think it's interesting because if I put [00:48:40] on my President Ryerson hat on. Yes. So today I'm President Ryerson, I go to a conference, everybody's trying to pitch me, right?

[00:48:47] Lisa Ryerson: For certain. 

[00:48:47] Ruben Harris: If I, if I'm, if I'm [00:48:50] going home and I sit down at my, at my desk at- Yes ... at work, I'm getting emails- Inbound all the 

[00:48:57] Lisa Ryerson: time ... people trying to pitch me all day, 

[00:48:57] Ruben Harris: right? Yeah. So I, I empathize with [00:49:00] drowning in pitches. 

[00:49:01] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. Yes. 

[00:49:03] Ruben Harris: But, but at the same time, you are looking for strategic partners because you are curious- Oh, 

[00:49:07] Lisa Ryerson: for sure

[00:49:07] Ruben Harris: and you're aware that you don't know everything. Yes. [00:49:10] We, we don't know everything. 

[00:49:10] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:49:11] Ruben Harris: So how does someone that wants to establish a relationship- Break through the noise to [00:49:20] catch someone's attention- Yes ... that has your hat on. 

[00:49:22] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. First of all, know that at SNHU- Or your 

[00:49:24] Lisa Ryerson: team's hat on ... 

[00:49:25] Ruben Harris: I, this is so important, and we did speak about this, and you're right about ed sites.[00:49:30] 

[00:49:30] Lisa Ryerson: I would want everyone to know- 

[00:49:31] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:49:31] Lisa Ryerson: that we are more curious- 

[00:49:35] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:49:35] Lisa Ryerson: than ever, and so we do want to know about what's [00:49:40] happening out in the world. But it, I would say those, you know when a pitch is authentic. 

[00:49:44] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:45] Lisa Ryerson: Which is about a leader, a founder, an individual, a leader of a [00:49:50] company that is well-established that is doing something unique, that authenticity and the outreach.

[00:49:55] Lisa Ryerson: In other words, from the very first presentation- Mm-hmm ... or [00:50:00] outreach, do they know us? 

[00:50:01] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:50:02] Lisa Ryerson: When someone assumes that I need, that we need something, that SNHU needs something, without really knowing us, I know that it isn't authentic. 

[00:50:09] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. [00:50:10] Mm-hmm. That's 

[00:50:10] Speaker 2: right. Right? That's right. So it is that. Know that SNHU, we spend a lot of time, and we have teams who do- Mm-hmm

[00:50:17] Lisa Ryerson: who are looking at development [00:50:20] opportunities- Mm-hmm ... with other strategic partners. Mm-hmm. So we're open for business- 

[00:50:23] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:50:23] Lisa Ryerson: to hear. We have, um, a whole unit, a new executive vice president for enterv- enterprise ventures that will lead- Mm-hmm ... [00:50:30] incubation work. Awesome. So we have a front door there- Yeah ... with Jim Chilton, who is that leader.

[00:50:34] Speaker 3: Awesome. 

[00:50:34] Lisa Ryerson: Uh, we will get back to you. 

[00:50:37] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm 

[00:50:39] Lisa Ryerson: Authenticity, [00:50:40] know the business, be curious, and want to be true partners with us as opposed to just selling us and checking [00:50:50] in with us- Mm-hmm ... only periodically. I love that. Build with us- Mm-hmm ... not for us. I love that. Goes back to our lengthy conversation about our, um, [00:51:00] care- 

[00:51:00] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[00:51:00] Lisa Ryerson: for the learners at SNHU and understanding that their journeys are unique. You know- Mm-hmm ... this is on a journey of one- Mm-hmm ... in 225 plus [00:51:10] thousand, right? We understand every journey is unique. 

[00:51:12] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:51:13] Lisa Ryerson: I want our potential strategic partners to know that SNHU is also unique- 

[00:51:19] Ruben Harris: [00:51:20] Mm-hmm ... 

[00:51:20] Lisa Ryerson: and that they need to know us.

[00:51:23] Ruben Harris: Yeah. No, I, I, I like that we've talked about caregiving. We've talked about care a lot. 

[00:51:27] Lisa Ryerson: All of it. All right. We're talking, this is about care. Like, 

[00:51:29] Ruben Harris: like if [00:51:30] you, if you think about care, after-action reports and- Oh, yes. We've talked about that ... and per- and performance, right? 

[00:51:37] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:51:39] Ruben Harris: And tweaking our [00:51:40] way to the future and how that's not the way.

[00:51:44] Ruben Harris: Um, a lot of people can do a good job. 

[00:51:47] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[00:51:48] Ruben Harris: They can exceed expectations, but they [00:51:50] don't care, right? 

[00:51:51] Lisa Ryerson: Right. 

[00:51:51] Ruben Harris: And then there's a lot of people when they think about performance, it's just how good is the technology? Is there no background noise? Is there no latency? Things like that. Yes. Right? Yes. So when you [00:52:00] think about someone who cares and how important that is, what, how does that evolve?

[00:52:07] Ruben Harris: Like how does that- Yes ... relationship evolve over time? So [00:52:10] let's say I started with the pilot with you, and I wanted to convert it into an annual. Like- Yes ... how do I, how, what are ways that people have demonstrated care- Yeah. 

[00:52:19] Lisa Ryerson: I 

[00:52:19] Lisa Ryerson: can give you- ... [00:52:20] beyond doing the job? That's not what I'm talking about Yeah, 

[00:52:21] Lisa Ryerson: I can give you very specific examples.

[00:52:24] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. And it is, so, so going back to this, you know, relationship that we have that we've talked about a lot- [00:52:30] Mm-hmm ... with EdSites One prime example is that one of their principals, Carolina- Mm-hmm ... will see me- 

[00:52:37] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:52:37] Lisa Ryerson: on her visits. First of all, hear what I'm saying, that the [00:52:40] principals will come along with the relationships we have with the depth of their team and, and be excited in my office to tell me things that I don't know that she knows about [00:52:50] our learners, knows about 'em by na- knows about what they've asked for.

[00:52:53] Lisa Ryerson: So you learn from each other. Have I thought about this? So we learn. Mm-hmm. It is a, you know, duos, triads. [00:53:00] Mm-hmm. A learning community is created. 

[00:53:02] Speaker 3: I like that. 

[00:53:03] Lisa Ryerson: And at the same time, of course, report outs to Sue Nathan, our chief experience officer- Mm-hmm ... our, our other teams [00:53:10] are about the metrics that you're talking about.

[00:53:12] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. You do have to understand what the por- performance is, what load are they able to manage. Mm-hmm. What evidence do you have- Mm-hmm ... about the [00:53:20] warm handoffs- Yeah ... from a chatbot into the systems- Mm-hmm ... um, of SNHU that are very human systems- Mm-hmm ... with our advisors and our faculty members who are often life coaches in addition to these other [00:53:30] roles- 

[00:53:30] Ruben Harris: Yeah, 

[00:53:30] Lisa Ryerson: yeah

[00:53:30] Lisa Ryerson: that they're playing. But that's how you establish it. 

[00:53:33] Ruben Harris: Yeah. No, that makes sense. And I, and I- 

[00:53:35] Lisa Ryerson: It's about, it's rooted in the way you've had results with other organizations, but then the [00:53:40] evidence that you're presenting is, has to be deeply rooted in, in the needs of SNHU. 

[00:53:44] Ruben Harris: Yeah. And there, there's front doors to establish a relationship with you all.

[00:53:47] Ruben Harris: There are. There are people that [00:53:50] are established. Definitely. Definitely. But let's, let's say I told you about my frustrations with conferences, and I asked you- And we talked 

[00:53:54] Lisa Ryerson: about this journey ... 

[00:53:55] Ruben Harris: I asked you where you spend your time outside of like- Yes ... the typical [00:54:00] conferences, but what I noticed at the conference last week, for example- Yes

[00:54:03] Ruben Harris: you have- 

[00:54:04] Lisa Ryerson: Yep ... 

[00:54:04] Ruben Harris: the vendors, you have the higher leaders that all the vendors wanna meet because they wanna work with them. 

[00:54:09] Lisa Ryerson: [00:54:10] And they're in two separate spaces. 

[00:54:10] Ruben Harris: And they're in two separate spaces. Lunch comes, the leaders are together. Ven- a vendor comes, they scatter. Unless they're already partnered [00:54:20] with someone, then they're like- Yes

[00:54:20] Ruben Harris: now they're friends and they're on stage together. They're having 

[00:54:22] Lisa Ryerson: meetings. 

[00:54:22] Ruben Harris: But like From the higher ed person perspective, are, are people coming to conferences [00:54:30] just for a family reunion, or are they coming to learn things? Like, what, like, what do you think- I think both ... what do, what do you think should change from conferences?

[00:54:36] Ruben Harris: A- and you might not be frustrated with this. You might think that this is fine. But for me, [00:54:40] I always get confused about why vendors a- and that and higher ed-ers aren't spending time together. Yes. Because if we don't know everything, and you're [00:54:50] looking for solutions to your problems- 

[00:54:51] Lisa Ryerson: You have to sit with us

[00:54:52] Ruben Harris: shouldn't you, right, outside of a booth? 

[00:54:53] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, I think absolutely. And so I, I thought about this a lot- Yeah ... you know, after we talked about it last night. And I do think you're absolutely right [00:55:00] about how- Mm-hmm ... it feels, frustrating probably on both sides. Mm-hmm. So on some level, not j- not just for presidents, but when our employees, and you know I share with you- Mm-hmm

[00:55:08] Lisa Ryerson: I work very hard to be sure that the [00:55:10] multiple wonderful leadership voices at SNHU are heard- Mm-hmm ... and not just mine. Mm-hmm. So we do go to many events, as learning events- Mm-hmm ... and also to share our knowledge as a way to help s- [00:55:20] strengthen as we're able the sector as a whole. I think you don't wanna be pitched all the time.

[00:55:24] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. But as you and I are saying, being together doesn't mean pitching. 

[00:55:27] Speaker 3: That's right. 

[00:55:27] Lisa Ryerson: If you enter into it as a true learning [00:55:30] community, and I think some conferences do this better than others, when you're having panels, they should be blended. 

[00:55:35] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:55:35] Lisa Ryerson: Put new thinkers- Mm-hmm ... new founders- Mm-hmm ... vendors together- Mm-hmm

[00:55:39] Lisa Ryerson: with, [00:55:40] you know, college leaders. Mm-hmm. With learners. You know, students are often missing. Why don't 

[00:55:44] Speaker 3: we hear the student voice? That's- So 

[00:55:45] Lisa Ryerson: do bring these voices ... what a novel idea. So I think the way we structure our panel conversations, [00:55:50] our salons- 

[00:55:50] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:55:52] Lisa Ryerson: and probably our setup. You know, it's a pretty traditional vendor setup, so I noodled last night.

[00:55:58] Lisa Ryerson: I don't have the answer for you, Ruben- Mm-hmm ... but I [00:56:00] really challenged myself to think about the point that you were making. I try, as I shared with you, when I'm at conferences, I'm aware that vendors have paid to be there- 

[00:56:09] Speaker 3: [00:56:10] Mm-hmm ... 

[00:56:10] Lisa Ryerson: and that often they're sponsoring. 

[00:56:12] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:12] Lisa Ryerson: And that I'm learning from them, and I want to talk with them.

[00:56:16] Lisa Ryerson: Part of why you're there- Mm-hmm ... is to give a pitch. So I need to build [00:56:20] into my schedule time to walk the room- 

[00:56:22] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... 

[00:56:23] Lisa Ryerson: and engage with people. Mm-hmm. I think most college presidents- They do ... do that. Yeah, they do that. And they do talk. But you are right [00:56:30] Why are we keeping the same structure alive if we have the same frustration?

[00:56:35] Ruben Harris: Exactly. 

[00:56:35] Lisa Ryerson: Zero base the structure Of how we interact at a conference- That's [00:56:40] right ... is what I would say. 

[00:56:41] Ruben Harris: I, I really love the point of the student voice. 'Cause as you know, I think- Yeah ... if we wanna meet students where they are, you do need a [00:56:50] omni-channel ap- approach. It's not just text- Absolutely ... email, voicemail, calls, right?

[00:56:54] Ruben Harris: You do need voice, right? 'Cause I b- I 

[00:56:56] Ruben Harris: agree ... 

[00:56:56] Lisa Ryerson: I'm a big believer in voice AI. But [00:57:00] you know, part about why I started this is to hear from you- Yes ... that's actually using technology. But to your point, how cool would it be, it [00:57:10] reminds me of the Breaking the Stars podcast- Yes, 

[00:57:11] Lisa Ryerson: yes ... 

[00:57:11] Ruben Harris: where like if you heard the student- Always

[00:57:15] Lisa Ryerson: sharing their experience working with AI agents [00:57:20] and your staff- 

[00:57:20] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:57:20] Lisa Ryerson: and how that helped them- 

[00:57:23] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[00:57:24] Lisa Ryerson: accomplish whatever they were trying to accomplish. Well, I'll tell- That is awesome ... 

[00:57:26] Lisa Ryerson: I'll tell you one of the ways that we do this, um, at [00:57:30] SNHU, and you, you met Siobhan. Um, we, we started having at our in-person leadership alignment meetings and also in virtual meetings- Mm-hmm

[00:57:37] Lisa Ryerson: panels of students, and Siobhan is an- Mm ... incredible [00:57:40] facilitator of this, panels of learners, and we ask these questions that you've just said. 

[00:57:46] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:46] Lisa Ryerson: How can we learn where we need to improve if we don't have the voices there? [00:57:50] So we bring the voices of the learners- 

[00:57:52] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:57:52] Lisa Ryerson: into our meetings. 

[00:57:54] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:54] Lisa Ryerson: We, I ensure that that happens.

[00:57:56] Lisa Ryerson: I don't want to have designers who go off in a [00:58:00] corner- 

[00:58:00] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:58:01] Lisa Ryerson: and design without having the student voice with them. 

[00:58:06] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:58:06] Lisa Ryerson: I don't wanna hear it- 

[00:58:07] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[00:58:07] Lisa Ryerson: Ruben. Yeah. Because I am not [00:58:10] the student. 

[00:58:10] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:11] Lisa Ryerson: So I have to know that. 

[00:58:13] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:13] Lisa Ryerson: I, I'm a student across my whole life, but I am not an SNHU student. Yeah. So I want to [00:58:20] know that as we're testing, we're taking in learner input and data, qualitative, quantitative, all the time as part of our build, and inviting students in with us.

[00:58:29] Speaker 3: I love that. 

[00:58:29] Lisa Ryerson: I [00:58:30] believe in that so deeply, as much as you know that part of our AI journey is that I am a, um-

[00:58:37] Lisa Ryerson: Believer, and I lead in the [00:58:40] following way. AI engineers matter. 

[00:58:42] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:58:42] Lisa Ryerson: Engineers matter. 

[00:58:43] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:44] Lisa Ryerson: So in our program and product pod development, we have engineers at the table [00:58:50] with leaders- I love that ... with our customer experience team- Mm-hmm ... understanding student voices all of the time as we're building. 

[00:58:57] Ruben Harris: Yeah.

[00:58:58] Lisa Ryerson: You don't come up with a problem and send it to the [00:59:00] engineering team. The engineering team is embedded- 

[00:59:02] Ruben Harris: Yeah ... 

[00:59:02] Lisa Ryerson: in the pod- Yeah, 

[00:59:03] Speaker: yeah ... 

[00:59:04] Lisa Ryerson: to do the work. And that's all over. That's in marketing, student experience, academics. Those, those [00:59:10] AI pods are everywhere and growing across SNHU. 

[00:59:14] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Uh, something related to designing with, you brought up [00:59:20] earlier, which is purpose matchmaking.

[00:59:22] Lisa Ryerson: I did. 

[00:59:23] Lisa Ryerson: And it'll tie into longevity, which we'll go into later. 

[00:59:25] Lisa Ryerson: I told you about that talk I gave. 

[00:59:26] Lisa Ryerson: But tell me about pur- p- purpose matchmaking [00:59:30] and how it ties to personalization and reaching people where they are. 

[00:59:33] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. To me it is, and I, as I shared with you last night, and I'll briefly share, um, with your listeners, [00:59:40] it, it started for me in my work- Mm-hmm

[00:59:42] Lisa Ryerson: uh, in aging and- Mm-hmm ... working on social determinants and- Mm-hmm ... trying to alleviate poverty, stop it from increasing [00:59:50] against- Mm-hmm ... you know, for older adults, people 50 and older. And as I was thinking about housing at every level, housing accessibility, housing instability, and also long-term care [01:00:00] or caregiving, it struck me that just like higher education where you have activities directors- Mm-hmm

[01:00:05] Lisa Ryerson: advisors, you have those same models- Mm-hmm ... in other [01:00:10] communities of care. Mm-hmm. And that's about spinning up things to do. Whether or not you know- 

[01:00:18] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:00:19] Lisa Ryerson: that that [01:00:20] activity or journey is actually what the people you are serving need or want. 

[01:00:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:27] Lisa Ryerson: So my suggestion at the time to [01:00:30] those who were involved in the housing market was to change those positions, the titles and the skills that they bring, to call them purpose matchmakers.

[01:00:38] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Why? [01:00:40] Every day from entry through a journey with a learner then for us, and at that time clients- Mm-hmm ... older adults you're serving, [01:00:50] you would know that the most important check-in is do I understand your goal? 

[01:00:53] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:54] Speaker 2: Do I know you? What is your, why do you think you're here- 

[01:00:58] Lisa Ryerson: Mm ... 

[01:00:58] Speaker 2: at SNHU? [01:01:00] Mm. What is your goal?

[01:01:01] Lisa Ryerson: What will it take to accomplish that goal? Mm-hmm. And then you're, you, you're purposefully- Mm ... with purpose at the core, building a pathway with a [01:01:10] learner- 

[01:01:10] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[01:01:10] Lisa Ryerson: not for a learner, assuming their purpose. What do we assume their purpose is? Always a full degree program. Is that everyone's purpose? 

[01:01:17] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:18] Lisa Ryerson: Maybe at some point in their life.

[01:01:19] Speaker 3: [01:01:20] Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:20] Lisa Ryerson: Do they need today, is their purpose, "I want a promotion in my work." 

[01:01:24] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. "

[01:01:25] Lisa Ryerson: Can you help me identify the skills gaps that I have that I must demonstrate?" Mm-hmm. What does the [01:01:30] purpose ma- matchmaker do, which is our advisors? They find the programs- 

[01:01:34] Ruben Harris: Yeah ... 

[01:01:34] Lisa Ryerson: and opportunities in SNHU- 

[01:01:36] Ruben Harris: Yeah ... 

[01:01:37] Lisa Ryerson: that can help you get there.

[01:01:38] Ruben Harris: I, I love it. 

[01:01:38] Lisa Ryerson: So I'm glad that you picked up on [01:01:40] that. 

[01:01:40] Ruben Harris: Oh, definitely. And I, and I, I, the other thing I picked up on is you didn't just bring up purpose, you brought up what is your goal. 

[01:01:48] Lisa Ryerson: What is your goal? 

[01:01:48] Lisa Ryerson: Right? Because [01:01:50] goals can change, and goals can- Purpose changes ... purpose can change, um- Yes ... that it's, but goals, let's, let's say the purpose doesn't change, there's a lot of [01:02:00] goals that service a purpose.

[01:02:01] Ruben Harris: That's right. And because goals and purpose can change, personalization isn't static. It's not just at the beginning. It's changing- [01:02:10] Boom ... you're changing as a person. There's a mic 

[01:02:11] Speaker 2: drop- Right ... with what you just said. 

[01:02:13] Lisa Ryerson: Right. 

[01:02:13] Speaker 2: To, and that's the risk, right? Mm-hmm. That you'll say, "I'll buy a system that will help me with personalization."

[01:02:18] Lisa Ryerson: You think it's a one and done. It's 

[01:02:19] Ruben Harris: [01:02:20] not. 

[01:02:20] Lisa Ryerson: It is not. It's not a 

[01:02:21] Ruben Harris: out-the-box solution. 

[01:02:21] Lisa Ryerson: We are in violent agreement about this. It is not, and it require, that is where you get to the AI native, but also the, the [01:02:30] sensibility- Mm-hmm ... the attributes of an organization and the people with- win- within an organization to be deeply curious.

[01:02:36] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:37] Lisa Ryerson: Not just checking a box, as you said earlier. Mm-hmm. I [01:02:40] have to ask these questions. Yeah. So whether that's a human or that's an agent, it's about knowing. 

[01:02:45] Ruben Harris: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:02:46] Lisa Ryerson: And caring to know. 

[01:02:48] Ruben Harris: Exactly. And, and I love that [01:02:50] we both worked in longevity. 

[01:02:51] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. Oh, 

[01:02:52] Ruben Harris: you know. Um, in, in caring because, like, 50,000 people are turning 65 every day for the next 19 years.

[01:02:58] Lisa Ryerson: I told you I was born in Loma Linda- You did ... [01:03:00] which is a blue zone. 

[01:03:01] Ruben Harris: And I talked with you about work that I did- Right ... with Loma Linda. 

[01:03:04] Ruben Harris: And, um, Okinawa, Japan, I've been there to- Yes ... like, really understand longevity. Yes. Right? Yes. 'Cause, [01:03:10] um, that's where the mo- like, women who live the oldest in the world are in Okinawa.

[01:03:13] Ruben Harris: Yes, 

[01:03:14] Lisa Ryerson: yes. 

[01:03:14] Ruben Harris: And they have this concept called ikigai- 

[01:03:16] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:03:17] Ruben Harris: which is translated as a reason for living and- I 

[01:03:19] Lisa Ryerson: know ... [01:03:20] 

[01:03:20] Ruben Harris: and purpose. Purpose. And I, I'm bringing it up because, um- It's tied to lifelong learning, right? 

[01:03:26] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[01:03:27] Ruben Harris: And it's not just about four-year degrees, graduating, get a [01:03:30] job, and you're done, right? You have 

[01:03:32] Lisa Ryerson: to- It never should have been about that, but it absolutely- Right

[01:03:34] Ruben Harris: cannot be that today. 

[01:03:35] Ruben Harris: So things are gonna be evolving, and then if you have all these AI [01:03:40] breakthroughs happening in the world, um... And I'm not gonna... I, I'll just bring up examples like- I'm excited about it ... GLP-1, peptides, all these things like- All of it ... pe- like I think people are going to l- be living [01:03:50] longer, so if you just do a exercise and say people are gonna live to 150.

[01:03:53] Ruben Harris: Let's just say that. 

[01:03:54] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. 

[01:03:54] Ruben Harris: Okay. Well, what does that look like from a education perspective, and how are we designing our [01:04:00] systems to serve them- Yes ... is a question. I'm not looking for an answer here. No, 

[01:04:04] Lisa Ryerson: no, no. I know, but I, I want you and I to talk about it, and maybe we'll have another section- Yeah ... together on this because you bring up, [01:04:10] first of all, longevity is more possible today.

[01:04:12] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:13] Lisa Ryerson: We could have a whole session on who gets access to it and who doesn't. 

[01:04:16] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:16] Lisa Ryerson: That, to me, I call to the fore because it really very much is about our [01:04:20] commitment at SNHU to open up- 

[01:04:22] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:04:22] Lisa Ryerson: access, but access without completion- Is what? ... is not positive. That is, you have not done the job. 

[01:04:28] Speaker 3: Exactly. 

[01:04:28] Lisa Ryerson: So for [01:04:30] me, we have to build and design- 

[01:04:32] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm

[01:04:33] Lisa Ryerson: the opportunity that I hope I have- 

[01:04:35] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:04:35] Lisa Ryerson: for more longevity for all. 

[01:04:38] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, 

[01:04:38] Lisa Ryerson: mm-hmm. And when you do it for [01:04:40] all, you do the really hard work- 

[01:04:41] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:04:42] Lisa Ryerson: of understanding how individual- 

[01:04:44] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:04:45] Lisa Ryerson: this becomes. 

[01:04:46] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:46] Lisa Ryerson: Higher education is all... I have talked about lifelong learning- Mm-hmm ... throughout my [01:04:50] entire career. And when I look in the mirror, I realize that I didn't always talk about it in a way that I then walked building the systems to ensure it.

[01:04:57] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. [01:05:00] 

[01:05:00] Lisa Ryerson: SNHU is talking about and walking in a way- 

[01:05:02] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:05:03] Lisa Ryerson: that will allow us to ensure that learners have easy in-and-out ramps. 

[01:05:09] Speaker 3: [01:05:10] Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:10] Lisa Ryerson: Where does AI- 

[01:05:11] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:05:12] Lisa Ryerson: and the agentic world help us? It helps us to know our learners. When, when a learner... You talked about omni-channel. Mm-hmm. When a learner [01:05:20] contacts us in any way- 

[01:05:21] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, 

[01:05:21] Lisa Ryerson: mm-hmm

[01:05:21] Lisa Ryerson: in any channel- They should expect that whoever picks that up- 

[01:05:26] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:05:27] Lisa Ryerson: human- 

[01:05:27] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:05:28] Lisa Ryerson: agent, student [01:05:30] financial services- Mm-hmm ... your advisor- Mm-hmm ... knows who you are. 

[01:05:32] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[01:05:33] Ruben Harris: And they know who you were 20 years ago. Yeah. When you're speaking about lifetimes that are- Maybe 

[01:05:38] Ruben Harris: you applied 20 years ago- ... more 

[01:05:39] Lisa Ryerson: centenarians

[01:05:39] Lisa Ryerson: you [01:05:40] 

[01:05:40] Lisa Ryerson: applied again, you should be able to pick up where you left off. 

[01:05:41] Lisa Ryerson: And that is where you have the power- 

[01:05:43] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:05:44] Lisa Ryerson: of tools that can do knowledge work with us- 

[01:05:48] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:05:48] Lisa Ryerson: next to us- 

[01:05:49] Ruben Harris: [01:05:50] Yeah ... 

[01:05:50] Lisa Ryerson: as our colleagues. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole other conversation about- No, I, I- ... HR and training for managers and l- and leaders that I find very, very exciting, and it's also daunting.[01:06:00] 

[01:06:00] Ruben Harris: It is daunting, but it's, like you said, I think if we're not just focusing on what does, what's the best that can happen, a lot of AI or technology [01:06:10] movies or books, like- Yes ... when we were at dinner we saw the girl at the front desk. She had- And that's right ... she, she had a brave new world. 

[01:06:14] Lisa Ryerson: She had, she had a brave new world.

[01:06:16] Ruben Harris: Right? There's 1984. Yes. There's these dystopian views on AI. Yes. But if you start [01:06:20] thinking about it from a positive perspective- 

[01:06:21] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[01:06:22] Ruben Harris: there's a lot of things that could be changed, and I, and I want to bring up gamification. Yes. Right? Because you and I both like Duolingo. We do. We use Duolingo [01:06:30] to learn languages.

[01:06:31] Ruben Harris: Um, arguably the, the power of Duolingo is breaking things into tiny chucks- 

[01:06:37] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[01:06:37] Ruben Harris: chunks, reminders, follow-ups, nudges- Yes ... [01:06:40] which is also important when you think about what can agents do that humans don't wanna do. It's the way we build our systems. Humans don't wanna be like, "Hey, man, did you fill out your application?

[01:06:46] Ruben Harris: Did you... Oh, don't, don't forget about this deadline." Like, those are follow-ups and [01:06:50] nudges that agents can do. That's right. And you play Dominoes, and that helps with memory. I love Dominoes. So, like, how do you think about gamification from a technology perspective at SNHU? 

[01:06:59] Lisa Ryerson: [01:07:00] Yeah. I think that gamification sometimes is viewed as less than or not high quality, and I think it's brilliant.

[01:07:06] Lisa Ryerson: Don't you? Yeah. Yeah. You know when you have gamification that is brilliant. We think about [01:07:10] it, we use Duolingo, which we both use daily- Yeah ... which is a terrific example. It, it's like, you know, I'm a reading, was trained as a reading teacher, a reading specialist. The [01:07:20] way you learn to read is with, um, meaningful bites.

[01:07:23] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. Bites of meaning. 

[01:07:24] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:25] Lisa Ryerson: And you stack those. 

[01:07:26] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:26] Lisa Ryerson: So gamification or that, that way that you [01:07:30] nudge people on to the next step that they are able to absorb and do becomes very, very important as one is thinking about completion- 

[01:07:36] Speaker 3: Yeah ... 

[01:07:37] Lisa Ryerson: and learning. So I, I think we should be using it, and I [01:07:40] do agree with you that technology itself, whether it's a chatbot or a more, more agentic world- Mm-hmm

[01:07:45] Lisa Ryerson: can lift, should take away, [01:07:50] uh, the tasks that are better done- 

[01:07:52] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... 

[01:07:53] Lisa Ryerson: with technology and by agents and should free up capacity- Mm-hmm ... for the uniquely human work. [01:08:00] Yeah. Or as we sometimes say at SNHU, you know, you have hand work and you have heart work. Mm. I want more of our people to be able to do the heart work- Mm-hmm

[01:08:08] Lisa Ryerson: the purpose work, [01:08:10] and I want to offload the hand work- 

[01:08:13] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm 

[01:08:14] Lisa Ryerson: Always within a framework of careful philosophy of AI use- Mm-hmm ... and technology use, careful [01:08:20] ethical standards- Mm-hmm ... privacy standards. You know, data sovereignty and AI sovereignty is important to us at SNHU, another topic for another podcast.

[01:08:27] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. But I wanna free up [01:08:30] capacity. 

[01:08:30] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[01:08:31] Lisa Ryerson: Because human connection matters. So what, what am I saying? A long way of saying I think they're onto something. 

[01:08:36] Ruben Harris: Yeah. No, absolutely. And that- Why 

[01:08:38] Ruben Harris: would you and I keep going back? Remember I [01:08:40] said to you that I knew when I got home I would have my... I put on the notifications.

[01:08:44] Lisa Ryerson: It's a particularly busy, busy time for me now, and I want Duolingo to send me a notification. Yeah. [01:08:50] I want the owl to say- I need that. 

[01:08:50] Ruben Harris: I need that ... "

[01:08:51] Lisa Ryerson: Do you wanna lose your streak?" Yeah. And I am so competitive, I do not wanna lose my streak. Yeah. 

[01:08:55] Ruben Harris: I'm not like that either. And, and I, I think it's a great segue to, um, like I think [01:09:00] the handwork was hard work, it's a good segue to my last two questions.

[01:09:03] Ruben Harris: Okay. 

[01:09:04] Ruben Harris: The first of the questions is, um, I remember back in [01:09:10] the day with Career Karma- 

[01:09:11] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[01:09:12] Ruben Harris: it was all about let's hire the best people- 

[01:09:14] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[01:09:15] Ruben Harris: delegate, and let them figure it out [01:09:20] And then as things evolve, I learned the importance of founder mode and, and being involved in the details. Like, like- Always ... 'cause we talk about performance, right?

[01:09:29] Ruben Harris: So a [01:09:30] lot of people call that micromanagement, but some people say micromanagement is management. You call it being in the work. Being in the work. What's the difference between being in the work and [01:09:40] micromanagement, and why is that what we believe is the right way to lead? 

[01:09:45] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah. I am. I have learned this-

[01:09:48] Lisa Ryerson: my lessons, and [01:09:50] sometimes the hard way. 

[01:09:50] Ruben Harris: The hard way, for sure. 

[01:09:51] Lisa Ryerson: Right? About when, when I did not get that right. I every day walk in the work- Mm-hmm ... at SNHU. [01:10:00] And the reason why there isn't micromanagement is I'm not actually doing. 

[01:10:03] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:10:04] Lisa Ryerson: Micromanagement is, um, you know, move over advisor. Mm-hmm, 

[01:10:08] Speaker 3: mm-hmm. 

[01:10:09] Lisa Ryerson: I'm [01:10:10] gonna tell you how to build your d- Yeah

[01:10:11] Lisa Ryerson: I'm gonna build your daily schedule. I'm gonna make your calls for you. Yeah. You know, I actually do. You do listen. Yeah. You do have to know that. Walking in the work is doing side-by-sides. [01:10:20] 

[01:10:20] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[01:10:20] Lisa Ryerson: You know, desktops with people. Walking in the work is, as the president, strategic planning is my job as much as it is anyone's job.

[01:10:28] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. Strategic, it's a [01:10:30] practice. Mm-hmm. It, I know the work so deeply- 

[01:10:33] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:10:33] Lisa Ryerson: that I could do it. 

[01:10:34] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:35] Lisa Ryerson: I know the work so deeply that I ask better questions, I coach better, [01:10:40] I mentor better, and I am accountable for all of it. 

[01:10:43] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:43] Lisa Ryerson: I'm accountable for all of it. Yeah. I am... I'm a better coach- 

[01:10:48] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:10:49] Ruben Harris: because I walk in the [01:10:50] work.

[01:10:50] Lisa Ryerson: If you don't walk in the work, are you a talking head? I don't know, Ruben, what do you think? There's a 

[01:10:54] Ruben Harris: lot of talking heads. 

[01:10:55] Lisa Ryerson: Are you a talking head? Not a lot of you. Like, I need to know. I, I, [01:11:00] whenever I take a new job, I spend a lot of time bringing together, going deeply into each team. Show me what you do.

[01:11:06] Lisa Ryerson: It's also about respect. Walking in the work is about [01:11:10] respect for our employees who are working. Our employees at SNHU, they wake up- 

[01:11:17] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:11:18] Lisa Ryerson: every day caring [01:11:20] deeply about excellence on behalf of our learners. I think wa- wa- Caring deeply about it. I need to care about them at that same level. I 

[01:11:27] Ruben Harris: mean, to your point, walking in the work as a [01:11:30] leader- 

[01:11:30] Lisa Ryerson: Yeah

[01:11:30] Ruben Harris: is about care, right? It's 

[01:11:32] Lisa Ryerson: care. 

[01:11:32] Ruben Harris: If I'm 

[01:11:33] Lisa Ryerson: a leader- It all comes back to care ... 

[01:11:33] Ruben Harris: and I'm delegating it to you, and you don't hear from me, I'm not with you doing the work, do [01:11:40] I really care if I'm not in the details with you? 

[01:11:42] Lisa Ryerson: I don't, I don't think that you do. And I would, I would also say it's the way you understand what your risks are.

[01:11:48] Lisa Ryerson: And this, you know, your [01:11:50] question to me ties together this entire conversation. 

[01:11:52] Lisa Ryerson: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:53] Lisa Ryerson: It also is the mandate for me right now as a university president. Uh, it's a, it's a [01:12:00] big role- 

[01:12:01] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:12:01] Lisa Ryerson: to, to see yourself as caring- Mm-hmm ... across the whole. And you have to know that you want to do that work. 

[01:12:08] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:12:09] Lisa Ryerson: Isn't [01:12:10] that true at any point in our career?

[01:12:11] Ruben Harris: 1,000%. 

[01:12:12] Lisa Ryerson: Understand what the work is. If you don't walk in it, you do not know what it is. 

[01:12:15] Ruben Harris: Yeah. And the, the last question before the rapid fire round- 

[01:12:18] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[01:12:19] Ruben Harris: [01:12:20] is- 

[01:12:20] Lisa Ryerson: Ooh, I can't wait for that. Can't wait to hear what you're gonna ask ... 

[01:12:22] Ruben Harris: you said what got you here won't get you there, right? 

[01:12:25] Lisa Ryerson: Absolutely 

[01:12:25] Ruben Harris: will not. You're the leader of SNHU.

[01:12:26] Lisa Ryerson: You- Will not. And, and you could ask anyone at SNHU and they would say they understand [01:12:30] that. 

[01:12:30] Ruben Harris: All right. I, I kn- I, I see it. I see you walking the walk, and now you're the leader of the largest, one of the largest schools- One of the largest ... in the nation, right? Yeah. Where are you [01:12:40] taking SNHU next? 

[01:12:44] Lisa Ryerson: When you think about scale for me- Mm-hmm

[01:12:45] Lisa Ryerson: as I said earlier in our conversation, serving, you know, [01:12:50] 225, 250, whatever- Mm ... any one given term, 300,000 learners is no longer scale- Mm ... in my mind. Why is that so? 

[01:12:55] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:56] Lisa Ryerson: Think about the population. Mm-hmm. You take it domestically, you take it globally. [01:13:00] Mm-hmm. And the, the, not just the concept, but the reality of unlocking opportunity across a life course.

[01:13:05] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:05] Lisa Ryerson: Many more people need more learning- 

[01:13:08] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:13:08] Lisa Ryerson: throughout their [01:13:10] lifetime. Mm-hmm. So I see us, I challenge us all the time, what would it take to get to half a million, a million? 

[01:13:16] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[01:13:16] Lisa Ryerson: 10 million learners. Yeah. Why do I say that? Not just for the number. [01:13:20] 

[01:13:20] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[01:13:20] Lisa Ryerson: For the impact. 

[01:13:22] Speaker 3: It's the need. 

[01:13:22] Lisa Ryerson: It's, it's the need and the impact- Mm-hmm

[01:13:24] Lisa Ryerson: for those individuals, their families- 

[01:13:27] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:13:27] Lisa Ryerson: their communities- 

[01:13:28] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:13:29] Lisa Ryerson: our society. [01:13:30] The purpose of education to allow individuals to have purposeful lives, good jobs, good pay, good benefits. 

[01:13:37] Ruben Harris: I, I love, I love the ambition because, [01:13:40] you know, I, I, one of the things that we used to say is, "I want to help a billion people in 10 years."

[01:13:45] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. 

[01:13:46] Ruben Harris: Right? And there's a lot of people in the world. There's like eight billion people in the world. I know there is. 

[01:13:49] Lisa Ryerson: Right? So [01:13:50] that is also- 

[01:13:50] Ruben Harris: And so like even- That's 

[01:13:51] Lisa Ryerson: meaningful ... 10 

[01:13:52] Ruben Harris: million students is a very small fraction- Still ... of eight billion. It's still... You're not just... So a lot of people think scale [01:14:00] sometimes is bad.

[01:14:00] Ruben Harris: You're getting too... Some people might even say it's greedy. I don't think it's that at all. 

[01:14:04] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. We talked about that. Yeah. 

[01:14:05] Ruben Harris: I think it's actually like you said, there's people that- [01:14:10] Aren't just the 43 million stop outs. 

[01:14:11] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[01:14:12] Ruben Harris: It's the people that, it's not the people that have some college, no degree, and- Yes

[01:14:17] Ruben Harris: the people that- 

[01:14:17] Lisa Ryerson: Even though that's a huge number itself ... 

[01:14:18] Ruben Harris: that's a huge number, right? Yes. [01:14:20] It's bigger than the 20 million plus that are- Oh, sure ... enrolled in the schools. Oh, 

[01:14:21] Lisa Ryerson: 40 million. 

[01:14:23] Ruben Harris: But there's, there's way more people- 

[01:14:25] Lisa Ryerson: Thank you ... 

[01:14:26] Ruben Harris: that have not decided to go to school 'cause they don't know that they [01:14:30] can.

[01:14:30] Lisa Ryerson: Or they're getting signals. 

[01:14:31] Ruben Harris: Right. They don't have signals. They 

[01:14:31] Lisa Ryerson: don't know that they can, and they're- Right ... getting signals from society. So you're right, sometimes it's viewed as greedy. Here, here is what I always say- Mm-hmm ... to my colleagues. I want every one of you [01:14:40] to succeed- Mm-hmm ... and have those goals.

[01:14:42] Lisa Ryerson: We thrive when you have micro colleges- Mm-hmm ... and large universities- Yep ... and different types, and publics, and privates- Mm ... and two year, and professional [01:14:50] skills, which is where we have a- Mm-hmm ... huge and growing program that is AI native- Yeah ... in its build. Um, there are plenty of people to serve. Mm-hmm. Let's [01:15:00] come together and serve more of them.

[01:15:02] Ruben Harris: There it is. There it is. Great ending to the rapid round. So rapid fire round. 

[01:15:07] Lisa Ryerson: Okay, 

[01:15:07] Ruben Harris: Ruben. Um, this is where I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions. [01:15:10] I just need short answers, but it's okay if we go on a tangent 'cause I like our tangents. 

[01:15:13] Lisa Ryerson: Good. 

[01:15:13] Ruben Harris: So the first question I'm gonna ask you is, what's your most used prompt?

[01:15:18] Lisa Ryerson: My most used [01:15:20] prompt is Claude, my Claude. "Claude, will you check my blind spots and my cognitive bias?" 

[01:15:26] Ruben Harris: I love that. That's a good one. And what books are you reading right now? [01:15:30] 

[01:15:30] Lisa Ryerson: I, right now I'm reading a book that I read every year. Mm-hmm. I love Jane Austen. I wrote my undergraduate thesis on Jane Austen, and I read her novels every year, Pride and [01:15:40] Prejudice.

[01:15:40] Lisa Ryerson: However, also Louise Penny, I like a good detective story. 

[01:15:44] Ruben Harris: I love that. Mystery. That's good. I, I read a lot of the, um, Hardy Boys mystery [01:15:50] books. 

[01:15:50] Lisa Ryerson: Love it. I thought they were great. Growing up, and I love a good mystery. People know that. They send me mysteries all of the time. 

[01:15:53] Ruben Harris: Awesome. Awesome. Um, I also asked you- I already brought this up earlier about [01:16:00] conferences.

[01:16:00] Ruben Harris: Yes. 

[01:16:00] Ruben Harris: But you told me that you get a lot of insights from non higher ed conferences or- I do ... non higher ed things. Can you tell me a little bit about what kind of [01:16:10] conferences have had the most impact outside of higher ed or- 

[01:16:12] Lisa Ryerson: Yes ... 

[01:16:13] Ruben Harris: something that you pulled from another industry that was very valuable? 

[01:16:15] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, absolutely.

[01:16:16] Lisa Ryerson: I think any time any group is offering, like, a salon dinner where you [01:16:20] know they're getting community leaders together, college presidents together- Mm-hmm ... workforce leaders, and that happens somewhat regionally across the nation. Mm-hmm. I love to both convene those and attend those. Mm-hmm. I think, like, The [01:16:30] Atlantic, Aspen Ideas- Mm-hmm, 

[01:16:32] Ruben Harris: yeah

[01:16:32] Lisa Ryerson: uh, Milken. Yeah. I mean, these are just examples of larger conferences. Uh, and stay tuned, SNHU will [01:16:40] be- Okay ... working to convene some of these, and you will be on the invitation list. I 

[01:16:43] Ruben Harris: hope I'm invited. I was gonna- Yes ... I was gonna ask you. I'll fly in, that's good. I 

[01:16:45] Lisa Ryerson: love work- I love workforce conferences also- Uh-huh

[01:16:48] Lisa Ryerson: because we're in the business of [01:16:50] connecting people with work. 

[01:16:51] Ruben Harris: Education and labor together. 

[01:16:52] Lisa Ryerson: Together. 

[01:16:52] Ruben Harris: What a 

[01:16:53] Lisa Ryerson: novel idea. Absolutely together. 

[01:16:54] Ruben Harris: A lot of people go to college to do what? Get a job. 

[01:16:57] Lisa Ryerson: Get a job. 

[01:16:58] Ruben Harris: That's another thing that kind of frustrates me. [01:17:00] And 

[01:17:00] Lisa Ryerson: wanting to get a job doesn't mean that you don't want to learn how to think- Learn or 

[01:17:05] Lisa Ryerson: be 

[01:17:05] Lisa Ryerson: a leader

[01:17:05] Lisa Ryerson: and walk in the way. Yeah. We, we somehow have disconnected what is a very [01:17:10] connected pathway in our lives. 

[01:17:11] Ruben Harris: Exactly. Okay. Yeah. So let's say we're at this SNHU conference, right? Yep. And- Yeah ... President Ryerson is about to walk on stage. [01:17:20] What's her entrance music? 

[01:17:22] Lisa Ryerson: Hands down, Madonna, usually Holiday. 

[01:17:26] Ruben Harris: I love that.

[01:17:27] Lisa Ryerson: I love it. I, I love the [01:17:30] old Madonna. 

[01:17:30] Ruben Harris: The classic. I love 

[01:17:31] Lisa Ryerson: it. The classics. And that's your- Holiday. 

[01:17:32] Ruben Harris: She did... You saw her in World Cup. 

[01:17:34] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, I absolutely- That was awesome, right? ... saw her on the World Cup. And also, if you were talking to my children, they would tell you, as they said at my [01:17:40] inauguration, every day growing up with them, I tried to start the day and end the day with a dance party.

[01:17:45] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. That's good. Love it. It's a good vibe. 

[01:17:47] Lisa Ryerson: It's good movement, good vibe. 

[01:17:48] Ruben Harris: I know we're in New Hampshire. 

[01:17:49] Lisa Ryerson: [01:17:50] Yes. 

[01:17:50] Ruben Harris: You have some roots in, like, the Buffalo, Ithaca area. I do. Talk to us about your favorite thing about growing up there. You have five siblings. T- tell, tell us about that. I 

[01:17:58] Lisa Ryerson: do, I do. I have, I [01:18:00] have four sisters and one brother.

[01:18:01] Ruben Harris: Beautiful. Talk to us about the most memorable experiences together with them out there. 

[01:18:06] Lisa Ryerson: Oh, my gosh. Uh, growing up in New York State was terrific. [01:18:10] Most memorable experiences, band, I shared with you. Music was important for us. Mm-hmm. It was something that we could invest in. Mm-hmm. And, and my family could invest in and afford, and it would get us different opportunities.

[01:18:19] Lisa Ryerson: Playing [01:18:20] music together. 

[01:18:21] Lisa Ryerson: I... There it is. 

[01:18:21] Lisa Ryerson: Whether or not you're playing your instruments- Mm-hmm ... and/or listening to music and dancing joyously together. 

[01:18:29] Ruben Harris: Awesome. Awesome. So [01:18:30] last two questions. First question is, what is something, some of the best advice you've ever gotten from a woman? It could be mother, [01:18:40] grandmother- Oh

[01:18:40] Ruben Harris: or someone else in your life. 

[01:18:44] Lisa Ryerson: Can I give you two bits- 

[01:18:45] Ruben Harris: Yeah, of course ... 

[01:18:46] Lisa Ryerson: of great advice? Remember the shoulders you stand on. 

[01:18:49] Ruben Harris: [01:18:50] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:50] Lisa Ryerson: Do not forget- 

[01:18:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:18:52] Lisa Ryerson: who you are, who led the path for us- Mm-hmm ... and light it forward. 

[01:18:56] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:56] Lisa Ryerson: The other best advice is definitely from my mother. [01:19:00] Um, remember that your brain, that your head and your gut are connected.

[01:19:05] Ruben Harris: That's real. That's real. 

[01:19:06] Lisa Ryerson: That is real. Both are important. 

[01:19:08] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:09] Lisa Ryerson: [01:19:10] Listen to both. 

[01:19:11] Ruben Harris: Head and your gut are connected. I love that- Head and gut are connected ... that message. And it also reminds me of, um, I don't know if you know who Dr. Joe Dispenza is. I 

[01:19:18] Ruben Harris: do. 

[01:19:19] Ruben Harris: In Becoming [01:19:20] Supernatural, he talks about the heart.

[01:19:22] Lisa Ryerson: Heart work. The heart. 

[01:19:23] Ruben Harris: And how the heart has a brain as well. 

[01:19:25] Lisa Ryerson: I know. 

[01:19:25] Ruben Harris: And how- Head, heart ... and the, and the, um, and now you talked about meditation. I remember I, I did... [01:19:30] I was in this yoga class in Miami, and they made us do a headstand. 

[01:19:34] Ruben Harris: Yes. 

[01:19:34] Ruben Harris: And they said the rea- like, while, while they're talking to you, while you're doing it and holding it and, like, [01:19:40] thinking about your body, they're like, "It's important to have moments where your heart is over your head."

[01:19:44] Lisa Ryerson: That's right. And 

[01:19:44] Ruben Harris: I thought that was, like, a very special- I love that. 

[01:19:46] Lisa Ryerson: I love 

[01:19:46] Ruben Harris: that ... thing to think about ... right? Yeah. Yeah. The last question is, [01:19:50] how do you know Paul LeBlanc? 

[01:19:52] Lisa Ryerson: How do I know Paul LeBlanc? 

[01:19:53] Ruben Harris: Yeah. 

[01:19:53] Lisa Ryerson: Who is, uh... Paul just... You know, many of you listening- Mm-hmm ... know Paul. I know Paul, um... I first met [01:20:00] Paul when we were in our first college presidencies- Yeah

[01:20:03] Lisa Ryerson: leading small residential campuses, and we connected immediately. And I have [01:20:10] had the great opportunity to serve with him on higher education boards, to serve on his board, and to be invited, uh, by him and the SNHU [01:20:20] board to come to SNHU and follow and build upon his great leadership and his le- legacy, as well as the legacy of the Shapiros who opened the [01:20:30] school and, and all of the presidents, Dick Gustafson, still alive, and Paul, who are here.

[01:20:34] Ruben Harris: Dang, 

[01:20:35] Lisa Ryerson: I... Well- So you know what? That's a gift in my life. 

[01:20:36] Ruben Harris: He's, he's a gift, and the re- That's a gift in my life ... the reason why I brought him up is [01:20:40] because- 

[01:20:40] Lisa Ryerson: Because it's 

[01:20:40] Ruben Harris: important ... that's how we... He's important, but also, he's how we got connected, so I wanna give a shout-out- He's how we got connected ... to Paul, Paul LeBlanc.

[01:20:46] Ruben Harris: Shout-out to Paul LeBlanc. Yes. But I have one more question. 

[01:20:48] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[01:20:49] Ruben Harris: The last question [01:20:50] is Presidents Forum. 

[01:20:51] Lisa Ryerson: Yes. 

[01:20:52] Ruben Harris: You're tied to the Presidents Forum. 

[01:20:54] Lisa Ryerson: I am. Yes. 

[01:20:54] Ruben Harris: What... Why are you part of the Presidents Forum? What is it, and why is that important to you? 

[01:20:58] Lisa Ryerson: Presidents Forum, you know, there are [01:21:00] many, many presidential organizations.

[01:21:01] Lisa Ryerson: What's important to us about the Presidents Forum is that you have, though they appear quite different- Mm-hmm ... and you've talked to many of our leaders- Mm-hmm ... thank you, from the Presidents Forum. [01:21:10] You have community colleges, public colleges, uh, large private online institutions, and everything in between.

[01:21:16] Lisa Ryerson: You know, private and public smaller residential [01:21:20] campuses. The Presidents Forum brings together what might seem to be a strange group- Mm-hmm ... of college presidents, all who are [01:21:30] action-oriented to drive stronger, durable outcomes- 

[01:21:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:21:35] Lisa Ryerson: for our learners, and it is a group that is very interested [01:21:40] in changing systems of learning.

[01:21:42] Ruben Harris: I love it. Yeah. I love it. So- Um, I just wanna end by giving a shout-out again to Paul LeBlanc, [01:21:50] Libby, Siobhan, I think it was Lauren 

[01:21:53] Lisa Ryerson: Lauren 

[01:21:54] Ruben Harris: Um, everybody that's on the SNHU team- 

[01:21:57] Lisa Ryerson: I love that. Yeah. Thank you ... 

[01:21:57] Ruben Harris: that helped put this together. This Is Your Normal. [01:22:00] Thank you for welcoming us to New Hampshire, and we out.

[01:22:03] Ruben Harris: Thank you, President Ryerson. Thank you for having me here. And thank you to you- Reuben, 

[01:22:05] Lisa Ryerson: thank you to you ... Rosa Lau. You're 

[01:22:06] Ruben Harris: amazing. Thank you. 

[01:22:06] Lisa Ryerson: Can't wait for our next conversation. 

[01:22:08] Ruben Harris: Yes. 

[01:22:08] Lisa Ryerson: And our work together, more [01:22:10] importantly. 

[01:22:10] Ruben Harris: Yes. Likewise